Xantia Head Gasket

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 04 Sep 2010, 21:20

i have seen XUD heads badly skimed and what dose happen when not in good hands is, the cutting tool pick's steel swarf and tear's the ally head across its width in a curved arc, then the new gasket has a job sealing the head face,

a good skim should leave a nice smooth finnish across the hole head surface,

the other point is to get the head presure tested, this checks for internal cracks that usualy open up as the engine gets up to tempeature,

get a good qualaty gasket (Melior, Elring or the well known one that beging with P, cant remember the spelling at the mo,

regards malcolm

f00lzz · Unread post by **f00lzz** » 05 Sep 2010, 06:47

If it is any help, I can recommend these guys

http://www.motorcast.com/services.htm

They have skimmed various heads for me... Rover 623, Citroen AX 1.4, plus a Xantia 1.9 after cambelt failure. They do a complete job inc. pressure test before skimming as well as pickup and delivery supply of parts... gaskets, head bolts etc.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 05 Sep 2010, 07:41

Old-Guy wrote:I've seen it suggested that the reason why the XU series engines use some very unusual metric sizes is that the original design was a Ricardo project (for a UK/Scandinavian customer) that was cancelled at a late stage.

That's always been my understanding Guy but the Scandinavian connection is a new one on me. Could we have seen a Saab or Volvo with the XUD then?

It's interesting to put a micrometer across XUD valve shims. they are far more imperial than metric in that they generally measure more naturally in imperial than they do in metric.

The history of Ricardo and Sir Harry in particular is something worth reading. Haynes publish an excellent biography of Sir Harry called "Engines and Enterprise".

It speaks briefly of the XUD and also goes into some detail over Ricardo's involvement with the development of the diesel Citroen Rosalie, the first diesel car.

Sir Harry ran a diesel Rosalie as his own car for some while.

Shaun, VERY interesting reading on the pitfalls of skimming an XUD head

NewcastleFalcon · Unread post by **NewcastleFalcon** » 05 Sep 2010, 20:00

If you want to read the story of my own ultimately succesful Cylinder Head Repacement it is summarised here with links to related posts.

Xantia Broken Camshaft 0 Newcastle Falcon 1

One of the tools I found particularly useful was an adapted 13mm/8mm square ended drain plug bit with the 8mm side hacksawed off. (see picture on above post). This turns a 1/2 inch-3/8 inch adaptor into the perfect tool for turning back the cambelt tensioner. For me using a 19mm spanner on the the body of the drain plug bit gives more than enough leverage to wind the tensioner back. You can even wedge the spanner against the engine mounting "turret" to keep it in place.

The drain plug bit is also useful for removing the awkward middle bolt from the inlet manifold, again in combination with a 19mm spanner because access is very restricted.

If you replace the water pump as part of the job make sure to get the right one. For me this was the one with the guard as I discovered from other posts on the forum which suggest a rule of thumb that if you have bolt on cambelt covers you need the pump with the guard.

Kind Regards

Neil

Unread post by **xantom** » 06 Sep 2010, 16:19

Hi, I'm in the process of trying to rescue my 1997 TD series 1 from the oil in the coolant problem. I tried a replacement oil cooler first as that was the general advice on previous forum threads but no change from that. Then at huge effort, as you will all doubtless recognise, I removed the head to change the gasket. I cleaned the head face as well as I could and couldn't see any obvious tracking, but I'm not experienced in this so I might have missed what would have been obvious to others. The top of the cylinder block seemed similarly clean and corrosion free so after getting as much grey goo flushed out as I could, I put the head back on with a new gasket. I won't go into the blood and tears that were shed in fitting this all back with the engine in-situ, but she fired up first time and the actual engine running sounded good and smooth. Unfortunately, I was now getting water blowing back quite vigorously from the header tank and from the bleed screw when I opened it. It wasn't doing this before so I feared it was something I'd done, like leave some tissue in a channel that I'd put there when I was cleaning the cylinder block top, or maybe damaged the gasket when I tried to lower the head plus exhaust manifold and turbo back onto the cylinder block. When I'd got over the depression of having mucked it up, I took a deep breath and decided to take the head off again to correct any mistake I might have made. Still couldn't make out any obvious problems with the head face and using the old steel ruler I couldn't convince myself there was any distortion whatever angle I placed the edge along the face. I did some even more paranoid flushing, getting another fair amount of goo out and since everything looked good, I did that silly thing tired and fed up people sometimes do; I decided to put it all back together again but more carefully. This time it still pushes water out vigorously but doesn't quite catch to start running. I must have got a cog or so out on the cambelt, probably just inattentiion to detail. So now I'm at the point where I'm seriously considering junking the thing after robbing it of bits for my 1998 TD series 2. But I don't really want to because it is a beautiful car, it just needs sorted. I know that it is very likely that it will need the head skimmed, given that a new gasket and head bolts correctly torqued can't stop what appears to be cylinder pressure getting into the coolant, but do you guys think it's possible that the pressure forcing water out could be because the water channels in the cylinder block are clogged with water/oil goo? If that is a possibility I'd rather go with trying to clear that than taking the head off again. Any magic solutions to un-goo the engine? and that magic K sealant, could that work or is it really designed for something different. Believe me, if I can get a cambelt's worth of mileage out of the old girl, I'll be satisfied with my investment. Any insight gratefully received.

49er_Jerry · Unread post by **49er_Jerry** » 08 Sep 2010, 14:27

Well, with a heavy heart, I think it's time to say goodbye to the Xantia.

MOT today, and I'm pleased I think that I tried K-Seal rather than changed the HG.

Failures:-
A couple of bulbs - no problem.
Offside (Outer Sill) seat belt anchorage area excessively corroded
Nearside Fluid supension accumulator leaking (maybe just oil though)
Exhausts emits excessive smoke or vapor of any colour.

Is it going to be worth the work / effort and expense to keep it running?

Would anyone like a donor vehicle if not. Sheffield area.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 08 Sep 2010, 15:02

I, as I'm sure others will, encourage you to save it if you feel up to the task unless the corrosion is truly excessive? Is it the rear seat belt area they failed? Did the K-seal work or will you still have to repair the HG?

The accumulator leaking could be a sticking point - assuming it's not just spilt engine oil that's run down the engine and collected on it. If the engine's dirty, I'd be inclined to wash it down with solvent and blast it off with a hose as mechanical professionals hate working on filthy oil cars. If there is a leak it will be far easier to identify the culprit and could just be a 10penny o-ring.

What was the smoke or vapour of any colour? If it's diesel smoke, you should be able to cure that with little to no money - a new air filter and oil change are the first steps.

49er_Jerry · Unread post by **49er_Jerry** » 08 Sep 2010, 18:10

The K-Seal didn't do the trick. I decided that rather that spend the time over the weekend doing the HG, that I'd wait until after the MOT, just to see if it would be worth the effort.

The smoke / vapour is white, very white and dense. I'm certain it's coolant vapour. The coolant is very pressurised now, but no emulsification in the oil.

I would love to keep the car going, but I need a vehicle for work, so will have to by a replacement. Similar vintage but fewer miles. The Xantia has done just over 170K. I've had it since 80k so can't really complain.

I don't have the space for a second 'project' vehicle either, so that's not really an option, hence the offer for anyone wanting the Xantia as a donor vehicle.

Simon99 · Unread post by **Simon99** » 09 Sep 2010, 13:18

Xantom - maybe you could try a compression test on the cylinders to see whether their giving even readings. Could be that the cylinder head has fine cracks that you didn't see.

Simon99 · Unread post by **Simon99** » 09 Sep 2010, 14:48

Having done a head gasket myself on a 1.9td I certainly don't envy you having to do the job twice with still no successful outcome. If you can get it running again you could attempt to clean the cooling system by adding a good scoop of washing machine soap powder and let it circulate for a full cycle before flushing.

Unread post by **Paul-R** » 09 Sep 2010, 15:08

Simon99 wrote:adding a good scoop of washing machine soap powder and let it circulate for a full cycle before flushing.

Intentional phrasing?

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 09 Sep 2010, 15:51

or just take the car for a spin

interesting idea Simon.. may have to try that..

John

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 09 Sep 2010, 18:26

John wrote
"or just take the car for a spin"

dont you mean a fast spin John

regards malcolm