Active Engine Removal (And refitting)

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 11 Oct 2009, 19:06

Engine now out. It was hell. Had a link break and the engine fell on the floor, well, onto the legs of the engine crane. Luckily, not found anything damaged.

What will need replacing is the gear linkage cables, luckily i have have a spare which was going on anyway.

Nearly forgot the lambda sensor. Easier if the ABS was out of the way IMO.

Early indications show its is the gasket that has failed, and a number of nuts holding the manifold on were loose, needing no effort at all to undo.

I've run out of light, so tomorrow will be clean up day. Concerned the hyrdractive block may have got damaged in the drop, so maybe Pleiades can help there.

The original turbo is like new, no damage at all to the blades, no oil in the intake, no play in the shaft. So someone will get a get turbo with the spare engine!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 11 Oct 2009, 19:13

Excellent news Gareth and good to speak to you this afternoon. We were doing similar jobs although Xac and I did nit quite get to lift the engine. We had too many difficulties with recalcitrant items

The old LX really did not want to be broken and fought all the way

One huge difficulty was the intermediate bearing on the RH driveshaft. The bearing had collapsed and made a mess of the housing, making it 100 time harder to remove.

Have a look at this!

That was all that was left of it

How/why are you worried about the sphere block being damaged?

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 11 Oct 2009, 19:51

Wow that is bad! At least mine is still in one piece, just stuck on the mounting!

I am worried a little because it got clonked a few times on the bleed nipple. I suppose i wont know until its all back together.

Whole lot is getting degreased so i have a nice clean slate.

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 20 Oct 2009, 10:22

Back to refitting, and i have a couple of things i need advice on.

Firstly, the little rubber pipe flares, the ones of interest are the pipes going to the pressure regulator on the block.

The smaller diameter pipe has a rubber flare, so this was replaced, and the pipe has been refitted nice and sug, and nipped up.

The second, larger diameter pipe is causing some concern. I fitted a rubber flare to it, although i dont recall it having one upon removal. Anyway, it didnt fit, sitting on a machined shoulder inside the regulator it stuck up and there was no way the pipe would ever fit. For now, i've nipped that larger pipe up with no rubber flare and it fitted fine, so it could be it doesnt need one?

Onto the next one, the Activa accumalator sphere which looks like a rear anti sink, requires a flare as well, the pipe going into this sphere is about 4.5mm as there is a much smaller pipe going to the hydractive sphere. Is this the correct size for this sphere?

Aux belt routing. Its the correct belt, but at the moment i've not yet figured it out.

For gearbox oil, i am going to make sure the old oil is out, then measure up 1.7 litres and pour through the reverse light switch.

I think thats it for now!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Oct 2009, 12:19

Hi Gareth,

I trust your weather is better than ours here today

If there was no evidence of a rubber seal in the pressure regulator for the bigger pipe than it does not need one. Some varietries of pressure regulator do but normally not very late ones. What you will find is an olive type seal in the bottomn but don't try to disturb it. Nip the pipe in (not too tight) and if it seals then all good. Pleiades can supply a new metal seal for this pipe if need be.

Yes, 4.5mm is correct for the activa accumulator sphere.

Aux. belt routing is odd. Here's a picture..

Yes, absolutely on the gearbox oil. In through the reversing light switch..

The level plug is half way up the back of the diff but the car must be level to use it. It's also very hard to get to

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 20 Oct 2009, 12:35

Thanks for that Jim.

Aux belt now on, i did a search and found that very picture and it took mess less than two minutes...

I definatly do not recall there being a seal for the big pipe. I had to fish out an old one for the smaller fitting though. This one has been nipped quite a lot in the past, as the black coating on it has eroded. If i have over done it i'm sure i will find out!

A return pipe at the bulkhead had split and cracked, its a small bore one. As a temp measure i have used some plastic pipe to sleeve between the broken ends and offered up to the LHM tank. The original rubber has gone very brittle here, i may need to get a 'snugger' fit by using tape on the ends of my plastic pipe, but its all low pressure here so should be fine.

I'll have to get another 4.5mm rubber flare. Think we only got one, and i used the other for the smaller bore pipe on the pressure regulator.

Other than that, slow progress. Weather here is dry but very breezy, cold and little sunshine so its a miserable day tbh.

Off to Citroen again to get a 4.5mm fitting or two.

Stuff remaining is refit the intercooler and rad, and all the pipe for it, battery tray, air filter, change engine oil, refill coolant, refill gearbox, refit ECU's.

Most of the engine loom is back in place.

Talking of wiring, there is an earth wire that goes from the battery to the gearbox. A smaller wire hangs off the end of this, but i'm not sure where it bolts onto. The bigger end is now on the box, and i though about bolting it near the starter motor but would rather it go where it should.

Gareth

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 20 Oct 2009, 16:42

Success! Its running! Enough for me to do a basic check for leaks, get the car off its axle stands and move it forward.

The only leak i have found, is on a low pressure return which will need a more permanent repair than current.

It will need more LHM. The level is low even after a litre being added, i did lose rather a lot. The pressure regulator/accumulator sphere is also whooshing/ticking, less when on low so i should imagine there is a lot of residual air to get out.

Need to refit the other end of the earth strap, if anyone knows where it goes?

The clutch works. Lovely and light, biting point over half way. Jim and i agree, this is how they should be.

Cooling system seems to be a pain to bleed. Not sure how much it takes, need to work on that till water comes out the rearmost hose.

Gearbox oil was a small problem, in that i could not remove the drain plug! I don't have the correct socket and attempts to remove it in other ways failed. So, assuming its not been drained fully previously, i added 1.2 litres for now and will drain and refill once everything else is sorted.

And wow, what can i say, it purrs! Even the way it starts is different. It now starts how the S1 that i had for a week or two did, totally different noise altogether. And of course, no manifold or gasket blowing!

I will at some point add a guide up for this. It is not an easy or straightforward job for a basic mechanic to handle and if your not familiar with Citroen's, its literally foreign!

The bottom rad hose was a bloody pain to say the least. The seal had swollen slightly, so i swopped the top hose seal over and tried. After cleaning the rad out with a bit of scotch and adding a waterbased lubricant, it did go on eventually.

Weather is meant to be a shocker tomorrow here, so work will be postponed till the weekend, 3-4 hours of fiddling and reassembly and it will be back to normal.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 20 Oct 2009, 17:57

Nice job, just the few loose ends to tie up.

XantiaMan583 wrote: After cleaning the rad out with a bit of scotch and adding a waterbased lubricant, it did go on eventually.

I hope that wasn't the bottle of single malt you used to clean the cooling system out with

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Oct 2009, 18:43

Well it's a solvent

Scotch(brite) is a godsend in the workshop and as useful as Blu Tak

I'd be without neither.

Honestly, well done Gareth

$\:D/$ Delighted to hear the news, especially of the clutch

How's the new gearbox?

Cooling system is bled by opening the bleed valve on the brass extension from the head near the thermostat housing, the cap on the top of the thermostat cover and the valve on the matrix elbow.

Open 'em all and fill the header tank right to the top. Squeeze the top hose and keep topping the header tank as necessary to keep it brimmed. You should see the bleed points dribble. Close them.

Start up and open the bleed points until they dribble whilst all the time keep squeezing the top hose. Run up to temperature, keeping the header tank brimmed, opening the bleed points at intervals until they run clear of air.

Switch off and don't replace the header tank cap until the engine has cooled down again. Always bleed with the expansion tank cap off.

The hydraulics will need a good bout of citarobics to rid them of air. Can you describe the leaking return or take a picture of it?

Anyway, good work in not such good weather. The worst is now over!

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 20 Oct 2009, 19:07

CitroJim wrote:Well it's a solvent Scotch(brite) is a godsend in the workshop and as useful as Blu Tak I'd be without neither.

Honestly, well done Gareth $\:D/$ Delighted to hear the news, especially of the clutch How's the new gearbox?

Cooling system is bled by opening the bleed valve on the brass extension from the head near the thermostat housing, the cap on the top of the thermostat cover and the valve on the matrix elbow.

Open 'em all and fill the header tank right to the top. Squeeze the top hose and keep topping the header tank as necessary to keep it brimmed. You should see the bleed points dribble. Close them.

Start up and open the bleed points until they dribble whilst all the time keep squeezing the top hose. Run up to temperature, keeping the header tank brimmed, opening the bleed points at intervals until they run clear of air.

Switch off and don't replace the header tank cap until the engine has cooled down again. Always bleed with the expansion tank cap off.

The hydraulics will need a good bout of citarobics to rid them of air. Can you describe the leaking return or take a picture of it?

Anyway, good work in not such good weather. The worst is now over!

Right i'll do that bleed job properly tomorrow. Forgot about the one on the outlet elbow.

Is it normal for the accumulator sphere to make a noise if there is air present? On high, the level is below the two lines, so it does need quite a bit more LHM. I'll go to GSF and try their prices.

Leaking return is on the bulkhead behind the LHM tank. I'll take a picture later as its easier than describing.

I did prime the HP pump by filling it up with a funnel then refitting the pipe on the tank. But its only had a few up and downs and with low fluid not much point doing any more. I left it for a couple of hours on high and its still in 4x4 mode

Another thing i am pleased about, no fault codes registered

Yet

The gearbox seems fine, although its not yet been driven it moved backwards and forwards ok. Will the level be sufficent with 1.2 litres in there?

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 20 Oct 2009, 19:08

myglaren wrote:Nice job, just the few loose ends to tie up.

XantiaMan583 wrote: After cleaning the rad out with a bit of scotch and adding a waterbased lubricant, it did go on eventually.
I hope that wasn't the bottle of single malt you used to clean the cooling system out with

Sorry, ScotchBrite

Though someone would mention about the lubricant though

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 20 Oct 2009, 19:17

Good work Gareth. Well done!

I'll have to get the clutch in mine attended to some time. It isn't particularly light, and the girlfriend complains that the biting point is too high. How many miles had yours done on the original clutch?

James

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Oct 2009, 19:18

XantiaMan583 wrote: Though someone would mention about the lubricant though

The thought did cross my mind and then I went off about bleeding and forgot

I've always used Vaseline myself but have on occasions wondered about the effectiveness of using a water-based lubricant in such situations...

Presumably it's OK. Only one way to find out I guess...

KP · Unread post by KP » 20 Oct 2009, 19:24

Missed one jim!!!

The way i bled mine was open up all bleeders, thermostat, top hose, elbow from heater matrix and that tiny brass one.

Cut the bottom inch of a 4 litre Robinsons squash bottle and put it into the header tank. fill the thing up with water and while pushing it down onto the header tank. Then water will come out of the thermostat one, close it off, then the brass one behind it, close it too. then the water should start coming out from the heater matrix neck on the bulkhead, close it off, then the highest point is the hose that follows the last one at the top of the pipe, then all done

Before doing this i used about 3-3.5 litres to fill up the system, then water for the top up bit above to get the right kind of mix in there without wasting too much

KP · Unread post by KP » 20 Oct 2009, 19:27

Good work though Gareth, wish i could be as confident with this things as you

My brand new clutch bites about where you say and the other 2.1tds i've always driven have been the same

Next on the list is the 2.1td conversion i think Gareth, find a nice donor car and give it to the mrs to learn in