Berlingo 1.9d oil consumption & questions.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:55

the wax stat not functioning dose make a huge diferance, as i have just fitted and set one up on an S reg 306TD, before fitting the new stat the car was billowing smoke and running ruff on cold starting, as well as fitting the new stat i cleaned the contacts for the earth conection to the pump advance servo,

doing all this has made a big diferance to the startting and a reduction in smoke

regards malcolm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 19:24

That's good to know Malcolm

I shall fully retract my earlier very incorrect statement

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 21:27

citronut wrote: doing all this has made a big diferance to the startting and a reduction in smoke

You know Malcolm, I'm such a prat

The waxstat on my old 1.9TD has been duff for years and in the cold, unless I give her a bit of throttle whilst starting (to replicate the missing fast idle), she really bumps and smokes on initial start. Give her a bit of initial rev and no worries. In my defence though m'lud, the cold advance does not seem to make a lot of difference on a Bosch pump as connecting and disconnecting it seems to make not a lot of difference. Older Lucas pumps do without it quite happily but I confess I've not experimented with the cold start advance solenoid on a later Lucas but knowing what it does inside the pump I'll wager it has more of an effect than the similar setup on the Bosch.

Neil, try putting your foot down a little way on the throttle whilst trying a start and see if it starts a little better. Not too far though, say, about an eighth... If it does, then your waxstat is not healthy. It'll not be pulling the fast idle lever to the fast position and not engaging cold advance. Another test you can do is to try forcing the pump into cold start mode by operating the lever manually to the right (as you look at it with the bonnet up) and temporarily securing it there.

The lever is shown in the picture below by the arrow. Push it in the direction of the arrow for cold start mode.

Just below the arrow is the switch contact for the cold start advance solenoid.

uncle buck · Unread post by **uncle buck** » 29 Dec 2008, 21:41

citronut wrote:the wax stat not functioning dose make a huge diferance, as i have just fitted and set one up on an S reg 306TD, before fitting the new stat the car was billowing smoke and running ruff on cold starting....

On both the XUD's I have owned (D & TD) the wax stats had seen better days....despite my best efforts to set them up I found that they were not fully releasing the enrichment lever on the pump when they should have, so I decided to adjust the cable fully off so that the wax stats were out of the equasion......I never noticed any difference at all in the cold starting of either vehicle ...so I would have to go along with citrojim's earlier statement.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 21:45

Cheers Jim,

That's what i've taken to doing - just tickling the throttle to 'even' it out a bit once it's running. If it does catch - usually when the weather isn't quite as cold as it has been over the last week or so, it runs lumpy (bumps & smokes, as you put it) for maybe 5 seconds, then it just evens out & runs nicely, that's without any throttle involvement...

Neil

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 29 Dec 2008, 22:14

Regarding the glow plugs.

When you first turn on the ignition and wait for the light to go off it may still keep on heating till the timer switches off the relay.... if you are really quiet you may hear the relay switch off in the engine bay. Or stick a voltmeter over the battery terminals, there will be a noticeable dip while the glow plugs are on, and then the voltage will go back up when the relay clicks to switch them off.

There isn't a microswitch to help control the glow plugs upon start up is there, if i remember correctly on my old zx it was a switch that opened up to be off when the throttle was pressed down, not sure how it is on the beli you have with the lucas pump (my zx had a bosch one), i used to let the engine catch first and then feed it fuel, pointless starting with ur footdown on these diesels as the engine has to turn to suck fuel from the tank, once you do a few turns you can feed it.

Have you tried priming the pump (squeezing that bulb) prior to starting?

One last word of advice is to make sure the glow plugs have good connections and earth, so they get the full current needed.

Hope that helps.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 22:44

Thanks Dei,

I have actually tried squeezing the bulb - didn't seem to make any difference. I just let the engine catch, then feed it slowly be pushing the throttle down gently just until till it 'evens' out and the sound of the engine changes & you know it'll run fine on idle...

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 29 Dec 2008, 22:45

Im nearly 100% that on the Bosch XUD9 the default setting is fast idle, and the little lever behind the pump is pulled on vacuum so how does the waxstat make a car harder to start in the morning?

Ahhh wait a minute....we're talking Lucas arn't we

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 29 Dec 2008, 23:42

i have found if the wax stat cable is slack whilst the engine is fully cold, then either the cold start wax stat is US or the cable is wrongly adjusted,

regards malcolm

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 06 Jan 2009, 17:54

oops. managed a double post!

please see below

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 06 Jan 2009, 17:55

Happy new year, one & all! well, i took the van from Cornwall to Derby & back for new year - it really drives very well. It's still using oil after a recent change. I reckon it's used 6 litres in 1600ish miles. With the consumption as it is, it's almost self changing! The air filter is dry & clean.

There are no untoward noises, the engine appears to be oil tight. It had it's headgasket replaced at 93k (102k now) back in March '07. Wondered if perhaps that has something to do with it? Valve stem oil seals?? If it was 'rings, wouldn't they be vocal enough to make themselves known?

I'd like to get it sorted out ideally - grown quite attached to it!

Can anyone recommend a non-ripoff/cowboy outfit in Plymouth?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:19

How's it starting now?

That's still a fair old consumption of oil Neil

It's got to be goibg somewhere. Did you get a chance to see if it smokes blue smoke at all?

Valve stem seals could be it, especially if they did not change them when the head was done. The sheer act of pulling valves out of the head (which would have been necessary if the head was skimmed) will damage them through contact with the sharp edges of the tops of the stems. Shame is, the head has to come off again to change them but at least being a non-turbo it's not a bad job.

It is so unlikely to be the rings themselves but there is this to consider:

Someone on here just a day or so ago said of a Mondy that used oil after a very quiet, sedate life just needed a good running in to resolve its oil consumption. Yours has had a very sedate life and the bores could well be glazed.

So keep using it, give it some beans (an Italian Tune Up) and see how it goes.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:30

Hi Jim,

It starts much better if i give it about half throttle before turning the key. As soon as it starts running back off the throttle, lose the lumpiness after 5 or so secs then it idles ok. I've bought a set of Beru glow plugs, so these need to go in soon!

There does appear to be bluey/blacky smoke on start up & lots of it! More apparrent in today's icey weather! The receipt that i have here for the HG mentions nothing of having the valve stem seals replaced - infact it doesn't even mention having the head skimmed or pressure tested?!

It reads: Remove cylinder head & replaced gasket, replaced cambelt, tensioners & change engine oil & filter. a new tyre, head bolts & that came to £689.16. Hmmmm...

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:05

From what the previous owner told me (she bought it direct from npower) it was only used for pottering around the station where a 20mph limit is in place - the only time it got to stretch it's legs is when either they went outside to fill it up with diesel, or it was off for a service... During the first 2 years of it's life it clocked up 60k, then the last 10 it's averaged 4k a year. Perhaps this is part of the trouble?!

I reckon not part of the (oil consumption) problem but ALL of it!

High oil consumption on vehicles (particularly diesels) driven too gently from new is a well-known phenomenon:-

A dozen years ago, I bought a Montego TD Estate from a dealer friend - 4 years old with a genuine 40k and FSH. On its first working day, I drove 150 miles to Tavistock from Gloucestershire in my usual 2¼hrs. Being a 'new' car, before driving back I checked all the fluids. It needed nearly a litre of oil!

My dealer friend gave me a 5L can of oil and promised to take the car back if the oil consumption wasn't seriously improved by the time it was empty. After a couple of weeks of being thrashed, mostly over the same route, the oil consumption was reasonable, and it 'went' better too. A 'shopping car' driven gently to save fuel, it had been p/x-ed when the oil consumption started to cause concern. All it needed was running in! During the next 9 years and 100k hard miles, it rarely needed more than ½L between 6k services.

It doesn't matter that the Perkins engine in the Montego is an unrelated design to your XUD.

So, before you go to any independent Citroen 'specialists' in Plymouth (don't ask!) to get the oil consumption problem fixed, try running-in the engine. Put a 5L can of the correct grade of oil (from a motor factor) in the van and drive it as hard as possible (trips to Exeter?), keeping a careful eye on the oil level and consumption, until the can is empty. You should find that the oil consumption has fallen dramatically.

You may find, as I did, that it takes several hundred miles before there's a major improvement. Once it does start getting better, keep up the pressure until the oil consumption is sensible.

BTW, I had to change the cold-idle waxstat on our Xantia XUD to sort poor cold idling.

Let us know how you get on - feed-back helps other forum members enormously

Guy

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:14

interesting stuff old-guy, appreciate your input.

The van covered 60k in it's first 2 years of life - the last 9-10 years were spent pootling around at 20ish mph - with occasional 'blasts' to the petrol station or chippy!

I've clocked 1600 miles in 3 weeks ish & the oil consumption doesn't seem to be getting any better - i appreciate that it could need a lot more mileage for me to notice any. I have to admit i haven't really driven it that hard - i had it up to 80 a few times on the private test track (M5

) - usually stick to around 70. I don't have any experience of these engines so felt guilty for thrashing a 101k engine that's only been used lightly for so long... Should i be driving more or less flat out?