dispatch van 1.9 td, water and oil ????

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 20 Mar 2007, 19:39

Steve,

Anoter thought. The 1.9TD has a water cooled oil cooler sandwiched between the oil filter and the block. If this is leaking internally it could let water into the sump and cause the mayo and water droplets you have.

These are pretty reliable though and I'd be surprised if it were but it is a possibility.

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 20 Mar 2007, 19:52

thanks jim, i'll investigate further.
i do have a 'smell' in the cabin and its not me....
i take it that the whole dash has to come out to get to the heater matrix.

steve

Stewart(oily) · Unread post by **Stewart(oily)** » 20 Mar 2007, 20:38

Its worth trying half a stick of Barrs leaks in the coolant before doing anything drastic, having replaced the thermostat recently in both my Xantia and my BX 70 degrees sounds a little cool, from memory thermostat opening temp should be either 80 or 85 degrees, mine must have been sort of working and was really only showed up by a weak lukewarm heater when driving gently on a cold november night, nine quids worth of thermostat and things are toasty, also the engine runs hotter and more efficiently. Yuor problem certainly does not sound like the head gasket
Stewart

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 24 Mar 2007, 18:04

well,
today i have checked all hoses and there are no leaks, the smell in the cabin i think is exhaust fumes, i have checked the breather hoses and the filler cap and mayo is forming in both.
i have no loss of power only a drop in mpg...

so to sum up
mayo, loss of water and mpg down appart from these faults the van runs fine,
temp is steady at 70 ish and the thermostat opens at around 80.

Stewart(oily) · Unread post by **Stewart(oily)** » 24 Mar 2007, 19:58

Chuck half a stick of Barrs leaks in the coolant, it will be insurance and will stop any small seeps of coolant you might have, if you feel the heater is not good then pop a new thermostat in, overcooling will make the mayo worse, I pick up a dispatch van myself in the next couple of weeks it will be interesting to compare
Stewart

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 26 Mar 2007, 20:05

citrojim wrote:Steve,

Anoter thought. The 1.9TD has a water cooled oil cooler sandwiched between the oil filter and the block. If this is leaking internally it could let water into the sump and cause the mayo and water droplets you have.

These are pretty reliable though and I'd be surprised if it were but it is a possibility.

jim...
you have made my day...

i have bypassed the oil cooler and run the van for 30/40 miles and the droplets of water in the filler cap have gone..

i am keeping an eye on water levels, the oil cooler is leaking looks (at the moment) to be at fault.
i will post my findings...

just a thought, will it do any damage running the van bypassing the cooler?

thanks again for all the advice.

steve

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 26 Mar 2007, 21:00

Excellent news Steve

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 27 Mar 2007, 00:08

I think you're at risk of a major high pressure oil leak. The oil cooler will be fed with pressurised oil from the pump - which passes through the heat exchanger element - where basically it will be surrounded with water. Presumably its heavily corroded and somewhere the oil and water have been mixing.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 27 Mar 2007, 14:14

Agree with Jeremy. The oilcooler should be very easy ro source from scrappers. Just abot every XUD (d/td) from the PSA range of cars have this oilcooler fitted.

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 04 Apr 2007, 20:54

well,
i thought i had cracked it but, today i checked the coolant levels and after 200 miles laden and unladen it has lost coolant again and droplets of condensation and mayo in the breather pipes has reappeared.....
any ideas?????

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 04 Apr 2007, 22:08

how do you know the thermostat opens at 80 ?

Just read thru the thread again, and I must say you have the symptoms on a too cold running engine. No matter what - any combustion engine should settle at a working temperature of approx 85degC - exactly when the thermostat has opened.
If the engine is running too cold it will dead sure have too high fuel consumption and produce loads of mayo in the fumes hosing system. Its the droplets (condensation) that makes the mayo when the water mixes with oil.

I believe your engine suffers from 2 separate problems : too cold running and a leak in the cooling system somewhere.
Its WELLknown that (even new) thermostats are prone to fail. And they fail by being partly open or open too early on temperature. Its a cheap standard component with a production cost of max £0.3 - rest is revenue for makers & dealers & distributors & governments.

Check the leak by applying moderate pressure (max 1bar) to the system, using an extra radiator cap with an air line connector.
Also using floodlights and looking for bluish or greenish white deposits at hoses will immediately indicate a leak. Sometimes there is a loud and clear telltale of that colour in the cambelt area of the engine - indicating the pump has retired.

You have by no means exhausted your possibilities - you have just been a bit lazy up to now

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 05 Apr 2007, 07:08

AndersDK wrote:how do you know the thermostat opens at 80 ?

You have by no means exhausted your possibilities - you have just been a bit lazy up to now

i take it that the thermostat opens at 80 as the temp needle rises to 80 then settles at 70, is this not so

lazy?

i have checked for water leaks ,on hoses, pumps etc and the garage that serviced it say its the dryest dispatch they have seen!!!

i will pop a new thermostat on and report back, anymore ideas?

David W · Unread post by **David W** » 05 Apr 2007, 08:41

Steve,

As has been said above....you must change the thermostat and report back after a week to at least eliminate one aspect. If you still get the water droplets/mayo it is very likely to be head gasket. I have looked after versions of this engine in many cars for 15yrs now and have regarded them as very unlikely to suffer short run mayo poroblems.

Again as others have mentioned above if you can't see any coolant leaking from hoses the water pump (if original) at your mileage is a likely suspect. Do not expect to see it pouring out... in many cases the only sign will be chalky white/blueish deposits right under the pump. Unless it is really bad you will have to take off the lower timing belt cover to see this.

One other possibility that is so common is the radiator leaking at the very bottom. Sometimes quite hard to see unless you get a bright light and good access from underneath to see the back of the rad.

Again it is not always going to be a flood of coolant visible because the airflow and heat dries off a slow leak before it drips. But you will se the evidence of deposits.

Pretty well every Citroen/Peugeot I have looked after has suffered a rad failure in this way between 7 & 10yrs old (around 70,000-120,000mls). We have just bought a 1998 1.9TD at 111,000mls and another 1999 1.9TD at 70,000mls... both were suffering slow coolant loss due to rad leaks.

However despite at different times them doing local runs of 1ml, 3mls, 6mls etc neither suffer mayo issues.

David

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 05 Apr 2007, 21:21

bars flush added to coolant, new thermostat fitted

i'll pop back in a week and report findings... 8)

steve67 · Unread post by **steve67** » 22 Apr 2007, 08:34

Solved it, as you all predicted it was just the thermostat...
When my mate refilled the cooling system he had trouble with air locks, since fitting a new stat all is well,
thanks for all your advise