HDi 2.0 8V wont start when cold - FIXED - NOT - YES

[RichardW]

It's Bosch if it's got a lift pump - the filter doesn't seem to tie up with the injection system fitted! Post up the last 8 digits of the VIN, and service.citroen will confirm.

[jgra1]

I think the word Bosch written on the fuel rail may give a clue lol






This morning, 10C, car started again better than ever.. 4 turns,, assuming my one glow plug and fuel filter fitted on Weds hasn't fixed it - I just cant see how a drop of 3-4C could lead to 50/100 turns of engine and not even a hint of starting,, and be fuel pump, battery, or starter ..

hmm

[Northern_Mike]

It's Bosch if it's got a lift pump - the filter doesn't seem to tie up with the injection system fitted!

The Berlingo has the same issue.... one sort of fuel system, the other sort of filter. Caused confusion when I changed it.

Sent from my hospital bed

[citroenxm]

Yea bosch pump alright john.

Needs to come from another 8v 2.0 family engine either xantia or 406... 90 or 110bhp too.

[jgra1]

thanks Paul.. going to be hard to get one that maybve doesn't have similar issues.,, all will be over 10 years old..

can we take these things apart yet

Jimmmmm,,,,,,

[citroenxm]

Im sending jim a couple to look at for that reason...

I dont think its a common issue. I had a hdi in with 286k with no issues. The head gave out first car was still fine.

[jgra1]

hmm, don't know why but I am sure I have heard of it being an Achilles heel of HDi's.. this and the lift pump,, but I may be making it up

[astramanmazdaman]

sorry I was under the impression it was a siemens system, if it is the bosch system you can you hear the lift pump "whoosh" when the ignition is switched on this will pressurise the line to the pump,if you lift the rear seat sqab you should be able to hear it start.
if not remove the cover and test to see if you are getting a voltage down there,there will be two slightly thicker wires for the motor and maybe 2 or 3 thinner ones these are for the sender unit,the voltage should run for about 5 seconds then switch off (if the ecu senses that the engine is running via the crankshaft sensor it will keep the lift motor relay energised)if you put a volt meter between 2 and 4 on the loom multiplug you should get a 12 volt reading for a few seconds when the ignition is switched on.if you have volts you most probably have a failed pump.
These were very common on Xsara's and 406's If no voltage you could try putting 12 volts to the feed into the pump if it runs start looking at the fuel pump relay which is controlled by the ECU. I would also look at the rev counter this is run off the crankshaft sensor,the initial voltage is from the ignition priming BUT the continued running is from the ECU,if it thinks that the engine is not running it will switch off the supply to the fuel pump for obvious safety reasons,so if when cranking there is no flickering of the rev counter have a look at the sensor which i believe is on the gearbox.
i am not sure if it applies to this system,but some bosch ones had a pressure sensor on the low feed side which would only let the high pressure pump work if there was sufficient fuel and pressure in the line to supply the rail AND lubricate and cool the pump.

[jgra1]

thanks, sorry for confusion.. surprised me too,
lift pump easily audible on ignition.. every time... I now wait a few seconds until the pump switches off,,
car runs perfectly.. just wont start when outside temp is under about 7C..

just odd

[taffy]

have u soursed a second hand injector yet mate?

[taffy]

im pretty sure 1 of mine is buggered as i was getting bad idle at all times and looking at the injectors 1 was really dirty up the side which means the fire seal had gone and its prob warped it so im hopeing thats it!

[jgra1]

no not yet Taf..
Just cant see why an injector would cause the problems I have.. although willing to try it

car running well

[astramanmazdaman]

looking back at posts you put
129rpm
86 bar

225 rpm
125 bar
171 bar

193 rpm
125 bar
186 bar

the cranking speed of an HDI with a good starter motor should be @ 450 rpm (mine flies over)the speed shown is camshaft speed which is half crankshaft speed,the speed whilst important is not the be all and end all the pressures , the injectors will only switch on when over 200 bar is registered in the rail,if the car spins over faster if its a little warmer it may well be that the battery/starter motor is tired check all connections also put a jump lead from the battery -ve to the engine as an additional earthand see what happens (2 years ago my xsara was fine all summer but as winter set in cold cranking became slower and slower,it still started because the pump was showing 280 bar !!! new starter spins like a banshee problems gone).
So if you are happy that the starter is spinning like crazy have the pump checked for pressure using diagbox or directly off the pump with a high pressure guage.

Just a word of warning on boosting/jump starting a flat battery from switch the side lights on, if there is any voltage spike the lights go brighter

Disconnection of battery pug/cit instructions..

Whenever a vehicle battery has to be dis-connected, switch off all equipment,
interior lights etc, close the doors leaving the drivers window open.
Switch off the ignition and remove the key and any DIAG equipment.

Wait a full 3 minutes before disconnecting the battery.

The BSi must be allowed to go to SLEEP i.e. into "power save mode". Do not
operate any equipment on the vehicle during this time. Remember, even
opening the bonnet will wake the BSi on a vehicle fitted with alarm.

If the battery is under the bonnet, open the bonnet first and leave it up. 807
batteries can be dis-connected through the drivers window, remove floor cover
first.

ALWAYS disconnect any DIAG equipment and do not operate any plips from
other vehicles during the 3 minute waiting period.


PROCEDURE FOR BATTERY RECONNECTION
Unless otherwise instructed by Product Service, you must always
carry out the following procedure, often referred to as a "soft re-boot", to
minimise the possibility of the BSi corrupting its own software when
reconnecting the vehicles battery supply.
Ensure the procedure for battery disconnection has been adhered to and
importantly all BSi functions were switched off with the drivers window left
down.
1 Close all doors
2 Remove ignition key if left in ignition
3 Reconnect battery. DO NOT open any doors
4 Wait 10 seconds
5 Switch on headlights through the drivers window (you will hear a "bong")
6 Switch on ignition then start the vehicle and check system functions

NOTE: Upon reconnection, if any vehicle function controlled by the BSi i.e .
interior light is switched on,the internal operation of the BSi has the potential
to spike or corrupt its configuration and software program......



IF a key is left in the ignition it CAN and often will wipe keys I know i had to reprogram all my own !
each year we will get a few cars in to reprogram the keys.

[citroenxm]

My xantia hdi is not a particularly fast starter car and starts with less then 200rpm all the time. Week or so ago when i was hVing starting problems and cutting out issues the starting issue was sorted with a set of injectors... this solved everything for a week however my cutting out issue has returned..

[jgra1]

hmm thanks both..

I would quite like to see some parameters when starting, both on a normal day and the day when it wont start.. Apart from holding a camera to a screen I don't know how else to record.. can the diagobx/lexia record, if so - how?