Xantia HDI 110 Clutch slave kaputt..

[CitroJim]

Thanks i3,

Got your PM...

Yep, reckon that's it if you can see good motion when it is out of the gearbox... It's just (hopefully) a case of getting the pushrod in the right place.

I went a bit further and dismantled a slave I have here, just to see how "reassembleable" they are if they do pop apart.

They are really quite amenable to being reassembled



So, no worries if it does pop apart.

I was shocked at how much muck there was in the bottom of the cylinder, suggesting that a full fluid change is a good idea and that the fluid badly deteriorates after a few years.

Once again, a case where "sealed for life" is not a good idea

[CitroJim]

I had a look at the slave in daylight and there should be enough of the old original tripod left to just hold the pushrod in place for reassembly. You'll find the collar of the tripod well slid down the pushrod beyond a ridge.

Push it back over the ridge and when the pushrod is back home in the slave, position the collar between the tips of the three tripod "legs"

Not a good one but this picture may help visualise it...

[HDI Dave]

The task of replacing the slave and getting the pushrod to sit centrally in the arm cup is a difficult job. The pushrod is held in a plastic tripod when new and this breaks on first application of the clutch. This tripod is essential to guide the pushrod to sit in the proper place in the middle of the cup. You can see the remains of it on a used slave cylinder.

I found this part quite easy,once i studied the slave. The tripod didn't seem to make any difference, as it was broken anyway! Maybe i had good luck? who knows! Anyway,my pushrod just sat in the piston.I reassembled the rubber gaitor assembly and made sure the slave was square on and it should line up great.After all it's a big dished cup for the rod to easily sit in.
I do see where you're coming from though, i3 could have damaged his piston etc so the rod would be all over the place. Only trouble with long distance diagnostics

That, I bet, is what happened originally to yours i3 and what initially caused all the grief. I would further wager that in all your subsequent attempts, you do not have the pushrod properly sitting in the cup but rather off to one side of it. Until you can guarantee the pushrod is sitting centrally in the cup, you'll never be able to bleed it.

I'm still waging his clutch was failing. The mechanic changed it didn't he? Sounds like when mine broke..bit of grating i think, (mate was driving), then the clutch release bearing broke away from the clutch,bang, pedal on the floor, and pushrod expelled

Hope the guy gets it sorted.

[i3]

the rod is all over the place in the cylinder... unless i push it in.. then it is better

[i3]

Jim,, i received the bleed nipple today...thanks,,, now,, how do i go about removing the old plug, and fitting this new bleed nipple plug?
also, i double checked the rod,, and it is loose,, it moves all over the place whether its slightly out, or even when i push it firmly so it's held in....
is it ruined now?

[i3]

ive removed the old plug, by cutting the pipe just about up to where the plug fits in... now how do i fit in the the bleed nipple plug? i tried putting the end of the pipe in a mug of boiling water for a few mins to soften it then try fitting it,,, but it didnt quite get soft enough and i couldnt get the plug in correctly.... shall i try another method? or should i just try this again, just leave it for longer in the boiling water?

[CitroJim]

The pipe is hard and heating in hot water won't give enough. A god heating using a heat gun will do the trick..

Sorry for the very quick, brief response. I'm really otherwise fully occupied and busy for the foreseeable...

[i3]

okay,,i got the heat gun today...and ive fiited the nipple... although its not flush in the pipe,,and i melted the end of th pipe a little...but,,its in there solid....is that a problem?

Then, I'd use this nipple to bleed down from the master. Once I was content the master was free of air,

how do i do this? and when to be content its free of air?

[HDI Dave]

I'm presuming you now have Jims' modified elbow in your slave cylinder,as in his pic:



..with the bleed nipple screwed in,straight,flush, not cross threaded or owt... And the plastic pipe heatgunned onto the ridged/barbed connector.

Have you ever bled brakes before? Same ish proceedure.I only ask because your mechanicing skills sound quite limited, and part of this proceedure could be tricky...

In theory you should always keep the master cylinder full.Screw the bleed nipple in.Bolt the slave in the g/box.Put a clear plastic pipe over the nipple with the other end in a clear glass jar/milk bottle with brake fluid in,so air can't get back in. Then,bleed it from the pedal end,with someone to work the pedal.Loads of fluid/air should pump through. When the fluid is clear..in the pipe into the jar..it should be free of air...

Still might not be though,so you'd have to carefully take the slave out,without pressing the pedal,as the rod would shoot out...and push the rod inwards,whilst working the bleed nipple,expelling any trapped air in the slave itself.

[CitroJim]

Just to add a little to your excellent guide Dave... Only open the nipple when the pedal is being pressed down. Hold the pedal down and close the nipple before allowing the pedal to rise back up. Then repeat until free of air.

I agree that you may need to finally remove the slave again and press in the pushrod whilst the nipple is open to bleed the final bit of air from the slave. use the same procedure as above, only haveing the nipple open when pressing the pushrod in. Close it before allowing the pushrod to return.

Unfortunately, the nipple is not quite ideally paced but is as near as is possible to get it to an ideal location.

In the past, my experience of bleeding hydraulic clutches, mainly in Fords, has been that they are difficult and much harder to do than brakes. I found one of the "Eezibleed" outfits (the ones with the one-way valve) work well for clutches and means you can do the job single-handed without having to shout instructions to an assistant!

[i3]

the one way valve thing...is it something like this in the link? will this do the job?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-BRAKE-BLEE ... 166wt_1199

[CitroJim]

the one way valve thing...is it something like this in the link? will this do the job?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DRAPER-BRAKE-BLEE ... 166wt_1199

Yes, that's it. Exactly the thing I was thinking of... They actually do work!

[i3]

Loads of fluid/air should pump through. When the fluid is clear..in the pipe into the jar..it should be free of air...

what does it mean by clear fluid? and..air possibly,,but,,loads of fluid certainly is not pumping through...the first push or two of the pedal release strong flows of fluid from the nipple..after that,,its just splutters of fluid and air.... is that normal? do i continue until the strong flow of fluid comes again?
the pedal does get a little better...it seems as though there is more resistance towards the bottom of the pedal,,it wont just sit at the bottom,,it will come up a little bit off the floor...once the pedal actually returned back up slowly...

[CitroJim]

That's getting better Isa What is meant by clear fluid is fluid that is free of air, bubbles and splutters.

Just keep going until only a strong flow of fluid and no air is expelled from the nipple. Sounds like there is still loads of air there.

Make sure you keep the mater cylinder reservoir well topped up during bleeding as if the level falls too low you'll admit more air and have to start all over again. Te master cylinder reservoir has a tiny capacity and I'd not be surprised if this is where the problem is coming in. As soon as you bleed out air, the level falls and more air gets drawn in.

[i3]

i presume when you say master cylinder reservoir it is the one identified right in the beginning,,,the hard to reach one,,at the far left of the engine bay? right? i never let the fluid go below so that it's out of my sight...i can always see the the fluid level in the reservoir,,and when it drops i top it up,,, that should be safe right? ive been trying it now... other than the initial change in the pedal,, i don think there is any more change yet... i have noticed that bubbles dont come out on every push of the pedal now,,, every now and then....with the pipe on the nipple its hard to tell if im getting a strong flow of fluid...theres no bubbles coming out at the moment,,like i mentioned..but in a few more pushes of the pedal,,,there probably will be a few bubbles...