Energy Matters Global and Domestic

[NewcastleFalcon]

PS that is confirmed in the intro blurb. Leaf spy assumes the odometer is in kilometres (when it isn't) and does a conversion.

Regarding why the Odometer and LeafSpy differ in displayed mileage, for some reason, LeafSpy believes the Odometer figure is in Kilometres and - obligingly but erroneously - changes the figure to Miles for us. (My brother pointed that out about two hours after the video went live which was a bit embarrassing!) Anyhow, now we all know.

My PS Gibbo...even confirms it was her brother who pointed it out to her!

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Given that battery life is directly related to charging cycles, this seems like a bad idea - especially on a Leaf that has no thermal battery management!!

Is that still the case on the later Leaf models?

According to this lot the 2022 Nissan leaf....Doesnt have active thermal management.

https://electriccarhome.co.uk/electric- ... ssan-leaf/

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Trying to get my head round this, I have compiled the hypothetical chart below:

Own creation

It seems to me that over a 24 hour period you will sell some energy at the cheap price and have to buy it back again, admittedly at cheap rate but still for more than you got selling it. The only way this can work is if you have your own generation, maybe solar or wind, to replace the energy you sell for free. Problem: most people's energy source will be solar which is not available during the charging hours unless you have separate batteries storing it while you are out driving, ready to refill your car overnight. If that is the case you are on the way to being off grid and the V2G wouldn't apply anyway. Despite what the energy companies may say to encourage participation the only real winners will be them!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Wish I could help Mick, I think I have just about got it, but if I delve too deep into your diagrams, I will possibly lose the fragile understanding I imagine I've got.

I thought the lady from Octopus did a decent job in the fully charged video, and reading the Tesla Power Plan frequently asked questions helped...although that is specifically for Solar and Powerwall, the trading bit will be similar in V2G. https://octopus.energy/tesla-energy-plan-faq/

At its simplest, the customer allows the V2G company to assume command of their Car Battery, which the customer agrees to make available within their chosen parameters. In return the customer gets a payment. (flat rate for ins and outs in the Tesla Power Plan)

All the trading, buying and selling of electricity and storage is done by the V2G company, and they receive the rewards, or occasionally suffer the losses on trades. The revenues for the trades bear no relation to the customer's own energy bill other than through the flat rate/kWh offered as compensation to the battery "owner" for the in and out V2G activity recorded.

Regards Neil

[bobins]

In a few years time I can see these V2G schemes being the target of litigation along the lines of:
"Were you defrauded of thousands of pounds from unscupulous energy traders ?" "Did you sign a contract that gave energy companies control of your car battery without properly compensating you ?"

[Gibbo2286]

In a few years time I can see these V2G schemes being the target of litigation along the lines of:
"Were you defrauded of thousands of pounds from unscupulous energy traders ?" "Did you sign a contract that gave energy companies control of your car battery without properly compensating you ?"

They're a bit busy with the diesel owners for the moment Bobins, when they've exhausted that line I guess your suggestion might be next.

[mickthemaverick]

Taking another view from the energy companies standpoint, the idea is to get a large proportion of the population to pay for the installation of energy storage (buying their BEVs) and then buy the energy from them at a cheap price at the time of day when they are supplying energy to other customers at peak price. I believe the energy they buy from the V2G participants will be cheaper for them than the energy they buy from gas generation during the time of day when they are charging their customers the highest prices.

Simple economics shows that if you lower your supply costs at the same time as raising your delivery prices it simply produces a larger profit margin on the energy!! Even in a Tesla type system where the price for import and export is the same to the participant, the energy company still makes a bigger profit by buying from the V2G scheme and selling to their non V2G customers at peak rate.

I will not be partaking in any such scheme unless I win the lottery and can set up my own energy trading company to milk the less fortunate V2G participants myself!!

[bobins]

That's what I was getting at earlier. The market price for supply and delivery 'right now' i.e. the price to accomodate Load Balancing, will be expensive, but the energy companies can sidestep that price buy buying electrons at a discount rate from those that have signed up to V2G. They also save on not having to design / build / buy the land for / connect up / manage battery storage sites. Very little capital expenditure for lots of lovely profit.

[mickthemaverick]

Perhaps it's time that the government changed strategy from price capping to profit capping. Then if the energy companies are able to source cheaper energy the sell on price would need to be reduced to keep them within the profit cap.

Obviously they would do whatever they could think of, to introduce extra costs in order to reduce the net profit so the cap would have to be applied to gross margin rather than net profit. That way we'd see them cutting costs like nobody's business to maximise the net profit within the gross cap rather than inflating costs to keep them within a net profit cap. Like anything that really benefits us mere mortals, it will never happen!!

[bobins]

They're a bit busy with the diesel owners for the moment Bobins, when they've exhausted that line I guess your suggestion might be next.

That reminded me, Gibbo - thanks A quick update from May about the UK VW dieselgate case which I think I missed at the time....

"The case was settled out of court in May 2022 for £193 million, with VW Group also making a separate undisclosed contribution to claimants' legal costs. It's not clear how much individual claimants will get after all fees and costs are deducted – the law firms involved say this is confidential due to the terms of the settlement.

VW had previously denied anyone lost out financially and continues to insist that the settlement does not amount to any admission in respect of "liability, causation or loss" but was simply "the most prudent course of action commercially".
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/trave ... al-claims/

<Normal energy discussions will be resumed shortly>

[bobins]

Perhaps it's time that the government changed strategy from price capping to profit capping. Then if the energy companies are able to source cheaper energy the sell on price would need to be reduced to keep them within the profit cap.

Obviously they would do whatever they could think of, to introduce extra costs in order to reduce the net profit so the cap would have to be applied to gross margin rather than net profit. That way we'd see them cutting costs like nobody's business to maximise the net profit within the gross cap rather than inflating costs to keep them within a net profit cap. Like anything that really benefits us mere mortals, it will never happen!!

Either that, or everyone should be given shares in the energy companies so we can all benefit from being shafted

[NewcastleFalcon]

Gas stories

Shell Invests in Jackdaw
North Field Expansion Project

One is in the North Sea....Our own Shell's own Gas. Be nice to them and they might sell it to UK Generators at the World Market Price.

The other is in Qatar, home of some of the biggest Natural Gas resources in the World. Behave yourselves and be good ambassadors at the World Cup, and Qatar my sell us some LNG at the World Market Price.

Regards Neil

[NewcastleFalcon]

Another one to add to the Gas Stories

Wholesale gas prices tumble as Europe prepares to intervene in energy markets


Regards Neil

[myglaren]

[Gibbo2286]

Well I tried to watch that and dozed off.