Hmmm, any one want to buy a spare fuel press. reg.?
As you might have guessed, it didn`t do the trick.
I guess i will try to check my ground connections.
For other trying to install the regulator, you need a hammer to fit it.
Hmmm, other than the ground connections, what to try next?
My old PR is a Weber / RPM36 / 250 KPA / 131(7)00 (the 7 is a guess, can`t see for scratch-marks)
How to check stepper motor? -updated
-
alexx
- Posts: 462
- Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 02:42
Hmmm, I was hoping for the best... No difference at all ?
I did a little experiment with pressure regulator. I disconnected its vacuum pipe while engine was idling. Expected some reaction (increase of rpm or stalling), but nothing happened. Pipe itself was in excellent condition, no leaks, strong vacuum felt on its disconnected end. Engine management warning light didn't lit either.
Took a short drive. My theory was that pressure regulator maybe isn't reacting quick enough to the flooring of the throttle pedal. At that moment, it must instantly raise the pressure by almost 1 bar, coping with much higher fuel demands at the same time. By disconnecting vacuum pipe, fuel rail is at the same pressure whole of the time (with possibility of the mixture being too rich during low engine load), so I was hoping that there would be some difference in driveabillity.
During the drive, I experimented with the throttle pedal, with or without gearchange. At first, I got the feeling that it was much better. Many times engine reacted instantly or almost instantly. But, several times it reacted with a delay, sometimes maybe above 0.5 sec delay, like before. At the end, I wasn't sure was there a difference or not. I think it's better, but it's not as it should be. At the end, connected the vacuum pipe back, of course.
My first suspect is still the throttle potentiometer. Sometimes, when I press the throttle, I got the feeling that the problem occurs when throttle pedal is passing about 1/3 of its travel, and that is the position where it is most likely to be worn. I'll check the pot, but it is unfortunately on the underside of the throttle housing, it's a bit tricky to take it off at about zero degrees, so I'll wait higher temperatures.
On the top of the regulator there is no manufacturer name, only "(050) Made in Germany". There are also some numbers on the side, and something like "30bo", probably meaning that it is operating at 3 bar, as stated in the Haynes for this engine.
I did a little experiment with pressure regulator. I disconnected its vacuum pipe while engine was idling. Expected some reaction (increase of rpm or stalling), but nothing happened. Pipe itself was in excellent condition, no leaks, strong vacuum felt on its disconnected end. Engine management warning light didn't lit either.
Took a short drive. My theory was that pressure regulator maybe isn't reacting quick enough to the flooring of the throttle pedal. At that moment, it must instantly raise the pressure by almost 1 bar, coping with much higher fuel demands at the same time. By disconnecting vacuum pipe, fuel rail is at the same pressure whole of the time (with possibility of the mixture being too rich during low engine load), so I was hoping that there would be some difference in driveabillity.
During the drive, I experimented with the throttle pedal, with or without gearchange. At first, I got the feeling that it was much better. Many times engine reacted instantly or almost instantly. But, several times it reacted with a delay, sometimes maybe above 0.5 sec delay, like before. At the end, I wasn't sure was there a difference or not. I think it's better, but it's not as it should be. At the end, connected the vacuum pipe back, of course.
My first suspect is still the throttle potentiometer. Sometimes, when I press the throttle, I got the feeling that the problem occurs when throttle pedal is passing about 1/3 of its travel, and that is the position where it is most likely to be worn. I'll check the pot, but it is unfortunately on the underside of the throttle housing, it's a bit tricky to take it off at about zero degrees, so I'll wait higher temperatures.
On the top of the regulator there is no manufacturer name, only "(050) Made in Germany". There are also some numbers on the side, and something like "30bo", probably meaning that it is operating at 3 bar, as stated in the Haynes for this engine.
-
pagh
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 03:19
- x 1
Well, maybe overall a little better pull, but i don`t think it really is the case.
Maybe i should try another thottle potentiometer, it was still on the car where i got the PR.
Maybe i should just give in, and have a diagnostic done, hmmm.
Damnit, it isn`t really a "real problem", it`s just at that point where you say; I want to find the damn fault, you know? I will not surrender myself to all the electronics.
Maybe i should just have bought an old ****ter of a car, without all the electronics, ohh well.
Ok, that let off a little steam.
Maybe i should try another thottle potentiometer, it was still on the car where i got the PR.
Maybe i should just give in, and have a diagnostic done, hmmm.
Damnit, it isn`t really a "real problem", it`s just at that point where you say; I want to find the damn fault, you know? I will not surrender myself to all the electronics.
Maybe i should just have bought an old ****ter of a car, without all the electronics, ohh well.
Ok, that let off a little steam.
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
-
pagh
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 03:19
- x 1
Hej Anders
No, i haven`t been over the MAP-sensor, actually i can`t find it.
I have looked at different hoses for leaks etc., but found nothing wrong.
Is it in the bunch of other sensors, around where fx the thottle pot is?
[Danish] Jeg håber sq du kan hjælpe lidt Anders. Det begynder virkeligt at irritere mig, men det kan jo også undre at mange andre har lignende problemer? Har du evt. Messenger eller ICQ? [/Danish]
I will take a closer look at the intake manifold tomorrow. But i need some guidence to the MAP sensor.
No, i haven`t been over the MAP-sensor, actually i can`t find it.
I have looked at different hoses for leaks etc., but found nothing wrong.
Is it in the bunch of other sensors, around where fx the thottle pot is?
[Danish] Jeg håber sq du kan hjælpe lidt Anders. Det begynder virkeligt at irritere mig, men det kan jo også undre at mange andre har lignende problemer? Har du evt. Messenger eller ICQ? [/Danish]
I will take a closer look at the intake manifold tomorrow. But i need some guidence to the MAP sensor.
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
OK Michael -
Can't find a picture of a Xantia 1.8 engine showing the map sensor. The map sensor is usually a black plastic unit with 2 small rubber hoses attached and a 3way connector. Use a Google search on map sensor, and already the first 2-3 search results gets you deeper into the map sensor.
Here is a typical map sensor : http://www.powerpage.dk/produkter/pic/map.jpg
Can't find a picture of a Xantia 1.8 engine showing the map sensor. The map sensor is usually a black plastic unit with 2 small rubber hoses attached and a 3way connector. Use a Google search on map sensor, and already the first 2-3 search results gets you deeper into the map sensor.
Here is a typical map sensor : http://www.powerpage.dk/produkter/pic/map.jpg
-
pagh
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 03:19
- x 1
Thanks Anders.
I will have a look when i get home. Can i clean it the same way they do on vagcars.dk?
I`m thinking of putting it in isoprophylalcohol overnight, and then let it dry on its own.
But i can see that the MAP on the picture is a little different, from the one on vagcars.
But is isoprophylalcohol good way to clean all MAP sensors?
I will have a look when i get home. Can i clean it the same way they do on vagcars.dk?
I`m thinking of putting it in isoprophylalcohol overnight, and then let it dry on its own.
But i can see that the MAP on the picture is a little different, from the one on vagcars.
But is isoprophylalcohol good way to clean all MAP sensors?
-
alexx
- Posts: 462
- Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 02:42
Michael,
I think there is nothing you can do with isoprophylalcohol about MAP sensor. VAG cars owners are using alcohol to clean MAF sensor, a totally different thing, made by Bosch, measuring airflow. MAP sensor, fitted to our engines, is a piezzoelectric device, measuring absolute pressure in intake manifold, and giving back voltage from 0 to 5 V, proportional to air pressure
On my engine, it's bolted directly onto intake manifold, very small plastic unit. Can't remember where it is on 1.8 8v.
A member of our local forum advised me yestarday to fit NKG plugs. He said that it cured the problem on his car. Hmmm, I don't know... will try regapping the plugs first
I think there is nothing you can do with isoprophylalcohol about MAP sensor. VAG cars owners are using alcohol to clean MAF sensor, a totally different thing, made by Bosch, measuring airflow. MAP sensor, fitted to our engines, is a piezzoelectric device, measuring absolute pressure in intake manifold, and giving back voltage from 0 to 5 V, proportional to air pressure
On my engine, it's bolted directly onto intake manifold, very small plastic unit. Can't remember where it is on 1.8 8v.
A member of our local forum advised me yestarday to fit NKG plugs. He said that it cured the problem on his car. Hmmm, I don't know... will try regapping the plugs first
-
pagh
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 03:19
- x 1
-
alexx
- Posts: 462
- Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 02:42
Well, on my engine it is on the underside of the of the intake manifold. Maybe some muck entered, causing troubles, but I'm not sure (didn't check yet). On diagnostics, MAP were showing expected air pressure, somewhere around 150 mbar when idling (didn't remember the exact number), quickly rising to near 1000 bar when briefly pushing the throttle. The guy said there were some (but rare) problems with MAP sensors, but manifested also with stalling etc
The plugs were changed on my car several thousands km ago (at 60.000 km), don't know the type of new ones. Old plugs were Bosch, but looking fine. I don't believe that NKG-s would be of much help, although everything is possible ...
The plugs were changed on my car several thousands km ago (at 60.000 km), don't know the type of new ones. Old plugs were Bosch, but looking fine. I don't believe that NKG-s would be of much help, although everything is possible ...
-
AndersDK
- Posts: 6060
- Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 04:56
- x 1
Commonly it's oil or muck in the small connection rubber hoses that makes for delay in the air pressure to the sensor - or simply a worn or damaged sensor.
Clean out mechanically the hoses to the sensor. The unit itself will most likely be damaged if submerged in any cleaning fluid. It's not like old timer carburettor's here, you're dealing with late generation delicate electronic units.
Clean out mechanically the hoses to the sensor. The unit itself will most likely be damaged if submerged in any cleaning fluid. It's not like old timer carburettor's here, you're dealing with late generation delicate electronic units.
-
pagh
- Posts: 36
- Joined: 31 Jan 2005, 03:19
- x 1
Thanks for the answers guys.
I have been in my engine room, but can`t find the MAP, SO...i have taken a couple of pictures, just to check if I am looking in the right place.
My plan is to find the MAP-sensor, and check the condition of the sensors and it`s connecting hoses. Plan B is a trip to the scrap yard for MAP, Thottle pot and idle step motor. I am aiming for around 9-14 pounds for the 3 things.
Anders, i confused MAP and MAF, on vagcars, so. And old time carburettors, hmmm, i am only 20 and this is my first car. I want to do many things myself, and as you know, we all have to start somewhere.
Pictures:
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010100.JPG
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010101.JPG
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010103.JPG
I have been in my engine room, but can`t find the MAP, SO...i have taken a couple of pictures, just to check if I am looking in the right place.
My plan is to find the MAP-sensor, and check the condition of the sensors and it`s connecting hoses. Plan B is a trip to the scrap yard for MAP, Thottle pot and idle step motor. I am aiming for around 9-14 pounds for the 3 things.
Anders, i confused MAP and MAF, on vagcars, so. And old time carburettors, hmmm, i am only 20 and this is my first car. I want to do many things myself, and as you know, we all have to start somewhere.
Pictures:
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010100.JPG
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010101.JPG
http://mpagh.homepage.dk/04010103.JPG
-
alexx
- Posts: 462
- Joined: 19 Nov 2002, 02:42
Black box marked with "V1" is throttle potentiometer. Yellow connector above it is for throttle housing heating element. Idle stepper motor (black thing nearby) seems to be the same as on my engine, made by Airpax for Magneti Marelli. Unfortunately, don't know how the MAP sensor on that engine looks like, and there is no picture of it in Haynes. It says: on older models, MAP is situated above the right-hand wing (look for a vacuum pipe leading there, connected to the inlet manifold), on later models, MAP sensor is mounted directly on the bottom of the inlet manifold (obviously, behind the throttle housing)
Before buying a throttle pot, check it with ohm-meter. Use analog-one, it will hopefully show some spikes. Or better, connect some headphones via the pot, and listen what happens when you turn the pot (sound must remain clear, no strange sounds, scratching etc). Furthermore, s/h parts from the scrapyard can be in worse condition than yours (at least that was my experience with s/h doseur valve)
Before buying a throttle pot, check it with ohm-meter. Use analog-one, it will hopefully show some spikes. Or better, connect some headphones via the pot, and listen what happens when you turn the pot (sound must remain clear, no strange sounds, scratching etc). Furthermore, s/h parts from the scrapyard can be in worse condition than yours (at least that was my experience with s/h doseur valve)