C5 X7 Hdi 163 auto exclusive - flat battery

[rmunns]

After nearly 4 years' ownership some faults are now appearing and I am without car. I'll try to describe the car's behaviour for the past week.
About 10 days ago I jet washed the car. I am always careful to avoid hard jetting onto the parking sensors etc., but this time did give the wheels quite a wash. As I was finishing I noticed one of the ext. mirrors had unfolded itself, I hadn't knocked it. I put it back into roughly the right place but it would not 'lock' in. After finishing I got in to move the car and noticed the handbrake (it's the electric one) light was on - also on the dashboard. And, when I turned on ignition I got the 'economy mode active' message. Car started and moved OK.
Next morning - nothing. No 'economy....active' message. Just a few paps paps paps.. by starter, flashing messages 'gearbox fault' ' handbrake fault' etc.
Charged battery (did not disconnect battery) for 24 hours. Did OBD2 check (Basic equipment) and showed no faults, as does the lnboard button.
Seemed ok over next 4 days or so, mirror even folded/unfolded properly. But handbrake light was still not as it originally was - the light on the handbrake handle will not go off (normally off about 10sec after key out).
Used car yesterday but after I got home (10miles round trip) battery seems flat again.
Other than what I've said about warning lights seen while parked there has been nothing while driving.

I just do not know what do do next. The battery is the one fitted when I bought the car and at the time it was said to be (and certainly looked) new.

[myglaren]

Best to check battery status first. Have you a multimeter?

[Peter.N.]

I would concur. Check the battery voltage before you start the car, should be around 12 volts or a little above, then check again with the engine running should read about 14.4 volts now, if it does the battery is likely faulty, if it doesn't it will be down to the alternator.

Peter

[GiveMeABreak]

If the parking brake is faulty, there should also be an accompanying message on the dashboard display stating this Roger. Also, the ESP / ABS system controls the Electronic Parking Brake in a Master / Slave relationship, so you would have an ABS / ESP fault if there was an issue there too.

Coupled with the gearbox fault and the economy mode messages I suspect your battery may be end of life or you got some water onto an electronic sensor somewhere and it might be giving off intermittent messages.

When you charge the battery on the vehicle, it is important that the charging clamp from the battery charger is attached not on the negative post of the battery, but to the Battery Charge Status Unit itself. See my post with pictures here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=58689#p552289

If you are doing relatively short journeys and just coming out of winter, the is always an additional drain on the battery and without sufficient charging time it will just deplete. Normal service life (depending on battery quality and type) will vary, but don't expect it to perform well after 5 years - especially on a vehicle like the C5 with all its electrical equipment and suspension pump / power steering (which is operated directly from the battery for the electro pumps). This can make a difference to battery life.

[rmunns]

First, thanks all for your advice.

I checked the battery:--- 12.4Volts with no running engine, 14.7Volts with engine ticking over.

I'll get a new battery.

Installing a new battery onto a car (done this maybe 8 or 10 times). Nowadays I am afraid that you should not disconnect the battery then go for a cuppa before fitting the new one. I have to admit to using jump leads during the process to make sure the car did not 'lose' voltage at all during the process.
Can I just take off the old battery leads, clean up and then install the new battery? I'm not too fussed about losing radio presets.

[GiveMeABreak]

Roger, it is perfectly normal procedure to disconnect the battery from time to time, as long as you follow the procedure. This is my new procedure that covers both the battery disconnect / reconnect / BSI reset in one:

BSI Rest / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

[rmunns]

Marc: I'm so grateful, thanks so much. Looks a bit daunting, but I am fairly confident.

I'm getting a VARTA E44 or a YUASA YBX5096 battery - not yet decided. They will cost €97 / €88 delivered.

[white exec]

Yuasa have given good service here.

[rmunns]

Oh dear. €88 on a Yuasa battery, but still the problem.

Fitted the battery Wednesday, according to the guide here (thanks again Marc). I used the black and red plastic protector caps to protect the open electrodes, so as not to have the negative touching after having removed it.

Everything went ok, remotes both work properly, ignition, lights etc fine. Took car for 5km run, no warning messages.

But late this afternnon (i.e. about 28 hours after fitting)...........................economy mode active. So back to square one.

Clearly something is shorted out and I have to say I think it's the electric handbrake. It does release when you start to move forward and actuates when you stop and take out the key. But I am sure the red lights - on the handbrake lever and on the dash - never used to stay on, but they do now and have dome since I jet washed the wheels a couple of weeks ago.

Can someone please give me some idea as to what I could do? Is it feasible to decouple the automatic electric brake and just use the lever to actuate it?
I do have a meter so is the somewhere I could check for a flowing current?

[GiveMeABreak]

No the electric brake is just that Roger. It’s not mechanical in the same sense as the standard mechanical brake. So what you need to explain is exactly which light come on and under what conditions?

You have to appreciate we can’t see it. The red light on the electronic lever will remain on when the brake is applied. Ditto on the dash.

So are you saying BOTH these are staying on when actually driving?

If there are faults it will state this in Diagbox. Are there any fault codes?

Your last post indicated correct voltages when charging and at rest. I do have a procedure requiring Diagbox to shift the battery management (economy mode) back to the BSI and away from the battery charge status unit.

But it is important to get to the underlying issue of the parking brake first before tackling economy mode.

[rmunns]

Marc...thanks again.

The handbrake light on the lever itself has never come on while driving. Neither has the red dashboard light.

What always happened until about 2 weeks ago is that when engine switched off and key removed, the red lever light would stay on for maybe 10sec. It might be that it went off when I opened the door to get out - not sure. Dash light went off when lever light went off.

But now - no light while driving (as before). But when switch off, get out of car, shut door... red light on (lever, maybe dash, can't remember) and stay on for at least a minute (I get fed up of waiting).

I just went out to car, pitch black. Car was not locked. No red lights on inside. Opened door....did not put key in...........red lever light comes on, red brake dash light on, as well as display in centre of speedo (mileage etc.). Shut door, wait.....10sec red dash and speedo centre go off. Red lever light still on. Waited. Red lever light off after 50seconds.

Hope that's not too confusing.

[rmunns]

If I want to use Diagbox then I guess that I need a lexia-type gadget? I gather that Diagbox is the Citroen diagnosis software?

I am in my 8th decade, so electronic things happen with some difficulty. But conversely, in 55+ years' motoring only rarely have I resorted to garages. There is usually a way. At least now I have time and, indeed, we have 2 cars (both Cits.) so there is no great pressure to quickly sort out problems.

To get back to the Lexia -- I do have an OBDII reader, but it is, I sense, rather basic. It certainly works ok but so far it has never shown any faults to be present. So, if I need to get another reader so as to be able to use Diagbox, any recommendations? I have looked at ebay UK and there are many there, but it would be nice to follow a recommendation.

[myglaren]

Easydiagnostics is the one that seems to be most favourable and they offer a small discount to FCF members.
Also they will help with installation and any problems encountered.

[rmunns]

I went onto the easydiagnostics website. They could do with renewing it.