C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[MattBLancs]

No sadly it has me beaten at present.

Not the diesel bug:
A slight accumulation in fuel pickup was found: cleaned out. tank was full (sod's law!) Full lot pumped out into numerous fuel cans. Coarse filtration whilst pumped ( "tractor funnel", filter paper above some aluminium repair mesh as a support to the filter media. Lidl battery driven pump a great help. Even when driven by a very dead car battery I have been meaning to weigh in for scrap - about 8 volts was all it could muster but the little pump soldiered on brilliantly) tank wiped out via the pickup hole. Nothing significant to be found.
Diesel treated with biocide anyway. Tediously stubborn pickup securing ring on top of tank reinstalled eventually ( thanks Dad! ) And tank refilled.

Diesel filter (changed recently) changed again for new Purflux unit. "Old" filter cut open - nowt living in there either.

System rebleed and all bubbles expunged from the system by a hundred million pumps of the priming bulb.

All to deliver no change in starting performance.

As I couldn't even kick it into life with Easy-start today I may retrace my steps and hence deem myself as incompetent at everything including the timing belt replacement - until, by examination I (hope to) prove otherwise. I don't honestly believe I made a mess of the belt replacement, but need to prove to myself that bit is definitely not wrong.

Oh, and in case lost amongst my waffle above:

Starter motor removed, commutator cleaned up, regreased and reinstalled. No change.

Night all,

Matt

[Rp0thejester]

The only thing it can be is an air issue. If your certain the belts were done correctly. If easy start doesn't kick it to life then air compression is wrong somewhere. Cars are simple, air, fuel, compression. If they have all 3 they run. We make it more complicated because we think of electronic systems. Sometimes going back to basics is best.

[MattBLancs]

Thanks Ryan, though I'd take a reluctant lawnmower versus diagnosis on the CT any day if the week!

Can anyone (called Marc, or otherwise! ) please confirm where the 2.2 HDi engines crankshaft locking pin / arrangements are? It's a floating pulley on the crankshaft cambelt drive.

I couldn't find the crank locking pin / hole / whatever so using this flywheel locking tool:

This was bolted to the gearbox and makes me sure crank didn't move during belt replacement. But I'd like to use the proper position when I delve in to retrace my footsteps and confirm timing is correct.

Likely next weekend before I get chance to dig in.

Thanks,

Matt

[Rp0thejester]

Can't beat a photo of a kid with food over their cheeks

[wheeler]

There is a hole in the engine block underneath the starter. It can be quite awkward to see & get to. (Number 4)
The crank pulley & pinion still has a woodruff key so is not a true floating pulley however the keyway is slightly bigger than the key so it can rotate a degree or so either way. there is a special centring tool for holding this but I have never used it and I've changed plenty of these timing belts. 5 is the centring tool for the crank pinion, Im sure it could be easily fabricated.

[moizeau]

Just doing this on my 407, decided to take the starter motor off, quite easy, I'll post some pics tomorrow.

[Paul-R]

ISTR that the Haynes manual, when describing the floating pulley, suggested using a small twist drill bit to space out from the woodruff key.

[MattBLancs]

Can't beat a photo of a kid with food over their cheeks

Well, I've no idea how I did that! Oh well, this is William, eating and wearing pasta with tomato sauce!

He's no idea what's wrong with his Dad's C5 either!

[MattBLancs]

Thanks all,

Yes have seen the floating, bit not fully floating, crank pulley. Was pretty much seized solid to the crank when I did the timing belt. Quite a lot of movement (almost a tooth on the belt from memory, so ±1/2 a tooth in each direction) [edit to clarify: was seized, freed off then degreased so was just able to move it to get belt tension correct, but not slipping about freely]

Thank you for the crank timing position information, I will look bit harder in this area (when I take starter off a third time - once for the slave cylinder replacement, once for cleanup regrease described above)

Yes starter comes off very easily so will get it out the way.

Thanks all,

Matt

[moizeau]

8mm pin in the flywheel and cam. Your locking tool is better than mine, mine didn't line up, had to adjust it to get an 8mm bolt in. Not gone further than that today.

[MattBLancs]

8mm pin in the flywheel and cam. Your locking tool is better than mine, mine didn't line up, had to adjust it to get an 8mm bolt in. Not gone further than that today.

Flywheel: 8mm = excellent, thanks.

My locking tool has quite a lot of material machined off the back outside edges (will take a picture shortly) - as received was very little engagement with the flywheel teeth as the gap between teeth and gearbox casing was much too tight for the tool to slip in very far. Wasn't happy about the amount of torque it needed to resist (when the flywheel bolt undone) acting on such a small area of the teeth.


I did get it to align with the threaded bolt hole (M8 in gearbox casing) whilst the 8mm cam pin was in place. But of course without the flywheel 8mm pin in place I may be a tooth out. In fact given the diameter of the flywheel and ring gear tooth spacing could be 2 or maybe even 3 out without noticing. (Bearing in mind the cam is only moving half rotational speed of flywheel, so effect is magnified too)

Shed door to paint and reassemble then hopefully dig into the car maybe this afternoon if the weather is kind.

Thanks for the support and info folks,

Matt

[moizeau]

Adjusted locking tool, I also had t shave some material off the inside face because the tooth wouldn't go in, the enlarged hole was because it was a half tooth out with both pins in.

Gold coloured locking pin just to the left of the green connector, when fully lined up it goes in about an extra inch

You can just see where the ally starter mounts are to the right so you can imagine the fun trying to find it with the starter in. Managed it once on my old BX.

[MattBLancs]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the photos. Rain got in the way of me making a start today, so likely next weekend before another update from me.

Yes, I think the XUD starter and timing hole are similarly on top of one another, had a 306 a good while ago and remember hunting for the hole for ages! Starter definitely coming off to save messing about.

Will keep in mind the crank locking tool might be half a tooth out, good to know, thank you,

Matt

P.S. for those interested it was macaroni cheese William was wearing /eating tonight - no photo sorry!

[Rp0thejester]

Well if it wasn't shoved up his nose it's a good evening

[MattBLancs]

After a weekend "off" (or rather shed fixing not car fixing) had chance to dig a little this afternoon.

Back up in the air, battery disconnected, starter off. Still couldn't spot the hole till I felt a little dip in amongst the grime. Cleared the crud out the way and behold there is the hole. 8mm in the block as moizeau clarified. Starter removed gave a nice aperture to view back of the flywheel as spun slowly with socket on crank pulley.

Mystery bonus 6mm hole in flywheel just to throw me off the sent, then a roughly 9mm square hole is the one I'm after.

Timing tools set failed to deliver (having 6mm and 7mm pin options only) couldn't find an 8mm bolt long enough as head seemed to foul on the block webs

So, offcut of scrap steel (from dead anti roll bar drop link) and opportunity to have a little play with my lathe duly pounced upon

I've spotted a rubber grommet in the timing cover that I think might line up with the camshaft locking pin position. Tomorrow will look in that with the borescope and see if can spot the hole. Will also try to locate the blooming grommet as it did the drop down who knows where trick just as I prised it free.

Some pictures:

Flywheel off, 8mm hole bottom of shot

Mystery 6mm hole in flywheel

Square 9mm hole for timing pin

Matt