NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

This unit is the NG4 system, made by Harman Becker.
Main Features: DVD, Voice Commands, HighRes Display, 3D Mapping, Bluetooth Hands Free, Independent Phone with MDS Module, SD Card, USB, Jukebox.

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GiveMeABreak
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NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Less than that now in terms of support too. I can give you a recent example where the NG4 Navidrive was available to order up to and including 2014. PSA have not and are unlikely to commission HERE for any future map updates. The current one is 2016-2 which contains 2015 data! So 2 years and obsolete. Disgusting.

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van ordinaire
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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by van ordinaire »

That's why, despite the fact so many cars now have integral (indeed, integrated) SatNavs, there's still a steady demand for TomToms & the like.

b-t-w, my TomTom's 6 years old, & does, sometimes, get a little confused now (although I've never followed it blindly) but is still fine, for all practical purposes.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by Gibbo2286 »

My TomTom's much older Van, I bought it for £25 in a bankruptcy auction, must be around 12 years ago, still works fine, even added the USA maps and took it to the States on my last trip.

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Re: Why are things so dear!!

Post by Peter.N. »

I think they work on the principle that if you can afford to pay that much for a car you can afford our price for the spares, one reason I wouldn't buy an new/expensive car even if I could afford to.

Peter

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

van ordinaire wrote:
07 Jun 2018, 02:07
That's why, despite the fact so many cars now have integral (indeed, integrated) SatNavs, there's still a steady demand for TomToms & the like.

b-t-w, my TomTom's 6 years old, & does, sometimes, get a little confused now (although I've never followed it blindly) but is still fine, for all practical purposes.
Yes, but remember that the Head Units are not just Sat Navs now Van, they are embedded systems that control car functionality and options, telematics and telephony, media, emergency call etc. So if it was just Sat Nav, fair enough, but on a £2k premium system you would expect support longer than 2 years on maps.

I think a factory fit is also better for aesthetics - especially if you consider that a lot of people also have dash cams (out of necessity now it seems :-D ), GPS radar detection (who me?) it soon starts to get a bit crowded without having to put up a bloody Tom Tom too! :-D

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by andy5 »

Over £300 update on some.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/03 ... e-gps/amp/

OK, there are some clever details on built in units, like calculating from the ABS sensors so you don't get lost in tunnels, but besides that there isn't much you can't do with a £50 Android phone.

I bought a Becker unit on clearance at Argos a few years ago, but have hardly used it. I tend to study Google Maps before setting off, and only occasionally might use it on the phone in the last few miles or if there is unexpected traffic.

Why some people have the things up on the window, and lit up at night, zoomed in close while they are on a motorway for another 20 km which they may be on daily, I just don't know

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

But I'm just making the point Andy that they are not just Nav units - they do calculate the route when going in tunnels of course, but a lot have the your complete media centre, and rear infotainment, your voice command system for operating the controls, the bluetooth and independent built in telephone system (or both in my case), DVD player, Equaliser, etc., etc., so none of these things that an android can do and shouldn't need to if the car manufacturers provided a minimum time frame for support. If people knew this from the start they would not have opted for a particular system. And 2 years for map updates for a 2014 purchased system is not on.

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Chris570
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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by Chris570 »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
08 Jun 2018, 12:17
But I'm just making the point Andy that they are not just Nav units - they do calculate the route when going in tunnels of course, but a lot have the your complete media centre, and rear infotainment, your voice command system for operating the controls, the bluetooth and independent built in telephone system (or both in my case), DVD player, Equaliser, etc., etc., so none of these things that an android can do and shouldn't need to if the car manufacturers provided a minimum time frame for support. If people knew this from the start they would not have opted for a particular system. And 2 years for map updates for a 2014 purchased system is not on.

Especially when you can still get maps for the older RT3 system!

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Exactly and this was my point to Citroen Customer services, whom have replied several times asking for VIN and car details and all the other unnecessary information:

First Response
Thank you for your recent email.

We're always looking to keep up to date with new technologies so I'm surprised to hear that our map updates have not been kept up to date.

I can't comment on information you've received from HERE technologies but I want to forward your concern onto the product manager for your vehicle.

In order to help, I need the following information from you:

- Vehicle registration number
- Vehicle chassis number (VIN) - you'll find this in your handbook pack
- The Citroën dealership you use
Second Response:
The reason I'd like a little more information was that I'd like to forward your enquiry on to the product manager for the model to see if they can provide any insight.

Can I take it from your response that your vehicle is the Citroën C5?

Until now I was not aware that PSA had decided against renewing maps with HERE technologies and, as such, am unable to give your question as complete a response as deserved.
I told them that is not required, I have supplied the technical and consumer names for the unit - end of - that is all they need to know, and the map versions. I told them I have contacted HERE maps and they have emailed me to say PSA have not commissioned another update as yet for this system.

Third Response:
Thank you for your further information.

The information I've been given from the product manager for the model is that this should be taken up directly with HERE technologies, suggesting the lack of updates is due to the providing company.

From the information already provided, I would infer that you have contacted them and their response is that PSA have decided not to renew this.

From the customer care team, I'm not privy to any decision making process so I can only apologise if this is the case.

Kind regards
Matthew O'Sullivan
Customer Care Manager
The "From the information already provided" is what I already provided to them in my original enquiry. So as you can see, we now have the ping pong game starting all over again!

Damned infuriating that they think we all totally thick and cannot see what is going on - how many brain cells does it take to locate the product development Team Head and ascertain the correct answer? Do you really think HERE maps will just make maps for systems they are not asked to???? Please stop treating us like idiots Citroen.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I have just fired off another email to HERE maps and await the response in light of the above....

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by mara- »

Chris570 wrote:
16 Jun 2018, 10:18
Especially when you can still get maps for the older RT3 system!


No, you can not. Last is 2016/2017 and it stopped receiving updates.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, but I think the point Chris was trying to make was that the updates were available up to 2017 for the RT3 which has been around since 2004! That is 13 years worth of updates, whereas the NG4 which was available up to 2014 on some models (2013 on the Peugeot) 308 - with the latest map data being 2015 on the 2016-2 edition, so that is the issue really. Very poor support.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by mara- »

That is poor support indeed. It's really strange that NG4, which is supposed to be the top of the line navigation, has so poor support.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

I have written to HERE maps again and am waiting for a response.

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Re: NG4 Navidrive 3D Map Updates

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, so the latest response from Here maps today - and my response to Citroen Customer Service:

Received from HERE maps today:
Thank you for inquiring about HERE Technologies.
Our database is made available to the navigation system vendors, portable device and car manufacturers on a quarterly basis. It is their decision whether a specific database version will be used to update the map of their navigation system or portable device. HERE Technologies cannot offer a more recent map update apart from what your car-manufacturer offers.

Citroen does provide updates for different systems (e.g. SMEG, RT6), but we have not received any information about a new update for the NG4 systems.
Should you require additional information, please send us your feedback by replying to this e-mail.
With kind regards,
HERE Customer Service
PO Box 501
7300 AM APELDOORN
THE NETHERLANDS
My response to Citroen:
Matthew

Further to your reply on this matter, which to be honest was quite disappointing, I have now received a further email today from HERE maps.

I copy the response below, which more or less confirms what I originally stated in my first query to you in that it is the car manufacturer that makes this decision as to whether they require an update and not HERE maps. I believe this response from HERE quite clearly states the decision making process as being with Citroen / PSA as to what updates they will commission.

The fact that I have had to do the leg work on this matter myself as a consumer and purchaser of the map updates to get an answer is, frankly, very disappointing and not what I would expect from Group PSA.

So now, in light of this latest confirmation from HERE, can you please provide me with a proper answer to my original question:-

Will PSA be commissioning an update to the NG4 Navidrive 3D / WIPCOM 3D systems, and if so, when will they do this?
I really do hope a considered response will be forthcoming from PSA in light of the work I have put into trying to ascertain where the decision making responsibility lies.