Sick 306 Dturbo

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Jakey
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 May 2002, 21:55

Sick 306 Dturbo

Post by Jakey » 28 May 2002, 22:29

I have a very sick 306 Dturbo (N reg, 132k) languishing at home. It is making a very disconcerting "clatter" at all revs that the AA diagnosed as bearings - probably big end. Having spoken to a local independant Pug specialist he suggested that the head gasket is more likely. While some of the symptoms (smoke, loss of power etc.) make this seem plausible, the noise the engine is making seems to indicate something more serious. I haven't yet had a look for the tell tale white(ish) deposits in the oil.
Having spoken to my girlfriend who has been using the car recently, the car has been progressively more difficult to start, has been puffing diesel smoke on start up, has been puffing slightly under acceleration and has been slightly down on power. Another quirk is the occasional flicker of the "water in fuel" warning (I have drained the filter a number of times and seen barely a drop of water).
These all seem to indicate something kinda serious but I am hoping that there is some way I can keep the car on the road as the bodywork is in good nick !
If it looks like being the head gasket I am considering replacing it myself - anyone have any experience of this job? The Haynes suggests, because of the turbo, leaving the exhaust manifold in place but removing the studs from the head ... not something that strikes me as an easy task!
Any suggestions/help/advice gratefully received.
Cheers.

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 29 May 2002, 02:07

Hi Jake, pack some rag round the injector's, start it up and slacken the injector pipe union's in turn one at a time, so the fuel does not go through the injector and the cylinder does'nt fire.
Keep your hands clear of the pipes and injectors and any spray because of the high pressure involved.
If the noise does not change significantly or stop on any of the cylinders, after all four have been loosened then you may well be hearing big end knock.
It's quite common for big end knock to be accompanied by the oil light glowing at tickover because of reduced pressure, a worn out big end let's a lot of oil past.
If the head gasket was a gonner and causing the clatter there would be smoke and fumes under the bonnet, and would be easily traceable to the gasket.
Could be a pump fault, cracked exhaust manifold, timing belt slipped a notch or two, dropped valve, plenty to be explored.
Can you tell if there is any missfiring.
I once had a injector stuck open on a mercedes van, that made one hell of a racket, that might be your problem.
Dave

Jakey
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 May 2002, 21:55

Post by Jakey » 31 May 2002, 17:03

Dave,
Thanks for that - I'll give these a go over the weekend.
Some additional info is that when the car started making the noise we were bowling along at 65mph on a dual carriageway almost at the end of a 60 mile trip. The car had felt a little sluggish and was smoking slightly for the duration of the journey, then suddenly started clattering.
Having pondered a little more, my feeling is that unless the bearing failed catastrophically a head related issue is more likely....!?

Jakey
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 May 2002, 21:55

Post by Jakey » 03 Jun 2002, 04:54

Try as I might I cannot keep the car running when I loosen the unions on either of the 2 cylinders nearest the cam belt - the only 2 I can get reasonable access to thru' the pipework under the intercooler !
I did find a duff glow plug which has now been replaced. She now smokes much less on start up, but is still very smelly and noisy! The smoke certainly smells like diesel rather than oil.
Any more suggestons greatfully received ...!
Cheers.

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 03 Jun 2002, 06:16

So there is no problem with those two pots by the sound of it, but if loosening either of their unions causes the engine to stop, there must surely be a missfire on one of the other two cylinder's, is this the case, is it only running on three cylinder's at the moment, the engine will rock back and forth a fair bit if so, also listen to the exhaust at the tailpipe for a regular beat.
You can loosen the union's on the pump instead of the injector's, it will have the same efect, as ever keep hands clear, use a long spanner and wrap some wrag around the union.
Depending on where abouts in the engine the fault lies:
Either A, the noise will change or stop when the union on the affected cylinder is loosened and it's fuel supply is cut off.
Or B, the noise will not be affected and will be the only cylinder that does not stop the engine or make any difference to it's present condition when it's fuel supply is cut off.
When you find it, check it for compression by removing it's glow plug and turning the engine over by hand via the front wheel, to do this jack one of the front wheels off the ground and select fifth gear, stick you finger over the glow plug hole to see if it's developing pressure on the compression stroke. ABSOLUTELY DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS WITH THE ENGINE RUNNING.
You can also check for compression by removing the rocker cover only (after the intercooler) and looking at the cams, this will tell you which valve's are closed and will readily give away cylinder's not developing pressure.
Note that allthough diesel fuel is much less dangerous than petrol it still poses a risk, also the above is only suggested as ways to help locate the fault on your car.
If you choose to follow anything written here, it is entirely at your own risk.
Dave

Jakey
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 May 2002, 21:55

Post by Jakey » 17 Jun 2002, 21:25

Dave,
Thanks for all your help, but I was unable to diagnose the fault so had to resort to a local independant Peugeot/Citroen specialist.
He has just called to say that a pre-combustion chamber had come loose and done some serious damage to the head and piston...
It seems like a strange thing to happen. Is it common ?
Whichever way I go from here it's gonna hurt!
Ho hum.
Cheers,
Jake
Edited by - Jakey on 17 Jun 2002 23:15:13

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
x 2

Post by Dave Burns » 19 Jun 2002, 00:31

Difficult to see how one could come loose, even if one was loose it bears down on the gasket against the block so should'nt move much, send you a pic if you want to see what I mean.
They are prone to cracking, perhaps one has shed a piece, that will cause no end of trouble.
Not something I've heard of before on these engines, but if the blokes got it to bit's and that's what he say's, who can argue.
Dave

Jakey
Posts: 11
Joined: 28 May 2002, 21:55

Post by Jakey » 28 Jun 2002, 20:40

Dave,
I actually went and saw the carnage for myself...
I'm not sure how it happened, nor is the garage, but all that I can say is that somehow the insert had come loose and appears to have twisted round. The subsequent frequent meeting of piston and insert had mangled both these and the surrounding area of the head. There were chunks of metal bonded to the piston face and head surface. Thankfully the bore and turbo have escaped unscathed.
Apparently it is not unheard of for a glow plug tip to become detached and cause similar damage, but for it to happen on it's own is unusual. The glow plug in that chamber was bent, but intact so whether it's cause or effect I don't know, but I'd guess at effect..
After a replacement (s/h) head, new piston & con rod and the best part of a grand .. she's back on the road.
I had a good look at the parts and the pictures in the Haynes and I still dont know quite how the insert could have moved as it did. It must have become very loose because, as you say, it is clamped by at least half its area between the head and block, and I believe it has a locating pin too.
Thanks again for all your help. I'll keep the notes for future reference... just in case !