boxer/relay engine swap 2.5 to 1.9?

[siraff]

Hello all.
Just wandering if anyone has had a lot to do with these vans? I've got a 2.5d that's on its last legs but I was going to give it a new lease of life with a 1.9TD engine.
Trouble is I don't know what bits are compatable between the engines - would I need mounts or the gearbox or everything?
I've never done much with the 2.5 but I've had a lot of dealings with the 1.9 so I know the turbo and N/A fit each other with little messing.
Thanks.
Simon.

[CitroJim]

Hi Simon,

The 2.5 was a pretty rare engine in cars and the only car I know it was fitted to was the Citroen XM.

It may well be worth having a natter over on the Club-XM Forum to see if anyone has done the same or similar swap on a 2.5 there.

They're a good bunch over there and I reckon if they can't help then it's never been done!

Good luck!

[wheeler]

Its not the same 2.5 engine. The one in the Relay is a fiat engine i belive.

[siraff]

Thanks, guys. I think the one I've got is the fiat engine - it doesn't look like a Peugeot/Citroen engine to me. I've never seen a Peugeot/Citroen 2.5 I don't think but I'd presume it wouldn't look a million miles removed from the 1.9?
I was thinking of trying to find a breakers where there are both vans and comparing to see what kind of job it is. The one we have is a minibus and quite a nice one at that so if I can convert it to the 1.9 platform I have a lot more engine options to choose from so it should keep it on the road longer.

[xmexclusive]

The XM mk 2 and also the Pug 605 were both available with a 2.5TD engine designated DK5 (130bhp) matched to a MG5T manual box.
The PSA vans (Relay/Boxer) were available with 4 different variants of a very similar 2.5 diesel engine designated DJ5.
These DJ/DK PSA 2.5 engines were designed around 1992/3 much later than the XUD 1.9 and 2.1's and look quite different.
Versions were: DJ5 (T9A) 86bhp without turbo.
DJ5T (T8A) 103bhp with turbo.
DJ5T (THY) 103bhp with turbo.
DJ5 TED (THX) 107bhp with turbo and direct injection.
Boxes used were:
ME5TU with a pull clutch.
MG5TE with a push clutch.
Clutch operation can be cable or hydraulic depending on model for the MG box.
Box outer casing also seems to vary according to engine it mates to.

Sorry do not know about van engine type swaps for sure but suspect that virtually all the fittings and mounts are likely to be different so a bare engine alone is going to be a lot of fiddly trouble to get complete and running. Wiring looms could be another bit of fun. Might well be easier to buy in a replacement unless your existing vehicle is specially fitted out.
To give an idea of the problems a couple of years ago I bought a load of XM 2.5 engine bits from a local garage. They had a 45k 2.5 work van of their own with a seized engine (oil pump went) and had bought a 2.5 XM estate to do an engine swap. Nothing fitted either as a lump or as bits for engine rebuild so after 3 attempts they gave up on the XM engine and bought in a van engine matched to the original.

John

[siraff]

Thanks, John.
The bus we have is fitted out very well and is exactly what we like. The only real downside to it has been the engine - but at 250k miles we can't moan when its had to pull a huge minibus about all its life.
My first idea was to convert to the 1.9 as its easier to get, parts are easier to get, it should use less fuel, it should be smoother and we don't pull any weight anyway so the extra cc's are not really useful to us.
The bus itself is in very good condition - it flew the MOT again with only an advisory on a small stone chip on the screen. While it was on the ramp I had a look underneath and its all very solid and in very good condition for the age.
I'm even toying with the idea of buying a salvage 1.9 van to canibalise for all the bits. I'm not overly bothered if its a turbo engine or not as I don't drive very quickly anyway but its always nice to have a bit of go in something that size so it doesn't slow right down on hills.
Do you think the donor van would be a better idea than trying to get bits together?
This bus in good condition is worth about £3k but needing the engine its probably worth buttons. We would much rather do the work on it and keep it a few more years as its far too good to break and would be a shame as its been good to us.
I don't mind putting the work in - I've done a lot of engine sweaps/conversions before - so really its down to how much we can get the bits for and how realistic it is.
I don't mind swapping engine, box, driveshafts, etc and even the dashboard part of the wiring loom if need be as access is very good and it's not too bad a job.
Ideally we would like the HDi but even breaker vans with those engines are loads of money.

[xmexclusive]

Hi siraff

You have answered the first question.
The existing van has real value to you and is worth refurbishing.
I suggest that next you identify in detail your vans current specific engine and gearbox types. An engine change with the same type will always be much easier than a conversion. That is the only option that I would recommend buying in a bare engine for. With a conversion there is work in mods to fit and wiring but the big risk is in the extra cost of replacing the ancilliary items that no longer fit. If you have the extra space available then a complete donor van with a proved good engine can be a superb source of how it fits information as well as for supply of virtually all the correct ancilliaries at a known total price. A MOT failure on bodywork might well prove ideal for this and possibly cost less that a bare claimed good engine from a scrappy. Once finished with the scrap steel might be worth a few bob.
I have some workshop manual info for relay vans so might be able to check some details if you get stuck.

Best of luck with the project.

John

[siraff]

Thanks again. I'll keep you posted on how I do. It may take a week or two but I think its worth it.

[Peter.N.]

The XM used a 2.5 diesel but I don't think that came out until the early 2000s.

Peter

[jgra1]

Peter!
I read this thread with interest and was going to mention shoe-horning a 2.8 engine in, then realised its 7 years old !

Out of interest and off topic - I hope to make my (second) annual pilgrimage to Wiscombe Park for the weekend of 9/10 Sept if you are interested? MG's on day one, Bikes on Day 2.. a nice spot for motor racing if you haven't ever been.. not far from you North of - and in between - Sidmouth and Seaton.. I could look at your Lexia with help from the forum..

Bring a picnic!

J

[Peter.N.]

Thanks for the invite J but we will be in north Yorkshire. They do hill climbing just across the valley from us in Monkton Wylde I think.

Peter