Damaged BSI unit

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

I took my Xsara Picasso in for a new clutch last week, The mechanic has finished and now it won't start (Electronic Immobiliser fault). I found a guy who can fix it but it won't be until next week. If I bought a second hand BSI and change the eprom possibly 95160 would that work? I have a lexia diagnostic tool and know I can solder this eprom since I do it daily on laptops in work.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by GiveMeABreak »

What would having your clutch done have anything to do with the BSI? The BSI is inside the passenger compartment driver side lower dash.

I suspect whoever has done the clutch has disturbed some electrical connections more likely. The immobiliser is a communication between the BSI, the transponder in the key and the Engine ECU. I would suspect connections in the engine Bay area first and check earths.

If you have a Lexia, what does this say, assuming you have run a global test? Are there any faults?

Does the car lock and unlock with the fob?
Have you tried re-syncing the key/fob by waiting 5 minutes ( in case the car has gone into anti-scanning mode from all the failed start attempts) then turn ignition on only, hold the lock plip button on for 5-10 secs, remove key shut doors, lock / unlock, then try starting?

I really think these are the basic things to try first before you risk bricking your BSI.

I’ve heard of a similar issue a few years ago and it was down to the mechanic disconnecting a plug or earth somewhere that caused it somewhere near the gearbox / bell housing IIRC.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

Thanks for your reply, I've done a global test and there are three errors. BSI failed, injection failed and abs failed. I suspect its from disconnecting the battery to soon. I'm not worried about how much it costs since the garage is paying for it. I just need my car back on the road. as well as immobiliser fault its also saying parking brake on the dash which its never done before. it locks and unlocks fine, I haven't tried anything except BSI reset procedure. I've checked all the cables near the gearbox and they're all tight
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by wheeler »

Daz3nt wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 09:06 I suspect its from disconnecting the battery to soon.

Ive dealt with this exact scenario many times, this normally just needs the keys re paired and/or the BSI re initialised back to the car as it can loose all its configuration.
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

wheeler wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 09:35
Daz3nt wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 09:06 I suspect its from disconnecting the battery to soon.

Ive dealt with this exact scenario many times, this normally just needs the keys re paired and/or the BSI re initialised back to the car as it can loose all its configuration.



Can you tell me how do I do that please?
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Ok, having those errors throws a little more light on it - if you have the exact error codes from the global, I can look these up for some additional info / suspect areas if you'd like first. Even with a battery disconnect - it may only cause some temporary glitches, usually corrected with the BSI reset that you have tried - but won't cause that sort of damage - it's possible that the battery terminals may have been connected the wrong way... and that has caused some damage.

If time is key, then it may be better to send the BSI off for repair rather to be honest if that's what you suspect it is. The ABS block communication fault is another pointer to the BSI. BBA Reman do repairs - and if you have it repaired, you will have some warranty on the repairs rather than spending time on replacing EEPROMs that may or may not solve the issue. If the garage are paying for it - then that is what I would do.
http://www.bba-reman.com/gb/content/peu ... ol_failure
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Try Wheeler's suggestion first - but the ABS comms fault suggests something else.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

GiveMeABreak wrote: 19 Mar 2018, 09:46 Try Wheeler's suggestion first - but the ABS comms fault suggests something else.


how do I do that?
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The key re-synchronising I have already explained in my previous post. The programming procedure is completed within Lexia - it will guide you through the process - but you will need ALL the keys / fobs together as the total number of keys need to be programmed in the same session - any not done will be deactivated.

I generally use Diagbox, but on the Xsara Picasso it will be Lexia, so you should be able to go into the customer options and find key programming - or the BSI and key programming. You will need your confidential code from your confidential customer card (or obtain it from Citroen for a £15 fee). Then it is a matter of following the guided procedure.

As for reinitialising the BSI, this has to be downloaded from a PSA server to ensure the correct configuration for your car is programmed in - and then a manual check of the programming is undertaken to ensure you have the correct options. So this is really a dealer only job - or with an independent that has access to PSA servers (as this is chargeable by PSA) and trained staff to do it properly.
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10812
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 982

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by RichardW »

Did they actually disconnect the battery under the passenger seat? If not, the ECU can be spiked by the live +ve from the battery - it's very common on Xsara Pics after a clutch change! See here for instance...viewtopic.php?f=3&t=59350 In this case, a new earth from the case of the ECU may fix it.
Richard W
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by wheeler »

Are you reading these errors from the injection ECU or the BSI ?
The above advice i gave was assuming the issue has been caused by early battery disconection. This wouldn’t normally cause any permanent damage, normally just needs a bit of Lexia time to sort. There could of course be something more too it.
The other thing that is common to happen on the Xsara Picasso when changing the clutch is for people NOT to disconnect the battery as it is under the passengers seat, inevitably the injection ECU casing gets shorted against the live positive busbar that’s right next to it when it’s getting moved out the way. Check for telltale scorch marks on the ECU casing.
As for manually configuring the BSI without a server connection it can be done but can be quite time consuming, the majority of the configuration options are fairly obvious. Any you are not sure of you can ask here for advice, any wrong options selected can always be changed again.

EDIT: Richard beat me to the shorted ECU theory.
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

I've tried what everyone has suggested but still no luck, I've removed the BSI, ECU and have taken them along with the two keys to a place for repair. He has said its common and the BSI needs to be reprogrammed. this guy > http://www.rollingmotion.co.uk is just over an hours drive from me so fingers crossed that will work, I'll let you know how it goes.
Daz3nt
Posts: 34
Joined: 03 Dec 2012, 18:46
Location: Swansea
My Cars: Xsara Picasso (05)
C1 (11)
x 1
Contact:

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by Daz3nt »

Found the fault, It seems the "Mechanic" disconnected the positive feed under the bonnet for jump starting etc which is right next to the ECU. The positive wire has touched the metal ECU case and has blown the ECU. The ECU bloke is trying to fix it if not the alternative is to replace it with a second Han ECU and he will program that to work with my BSI.

He has tested the BSI and thats working ok. since finding this out I've come across many other forums where people have made the same mistake. I'm not 100% sure yet but the garage owner has said we will work something out financially once the car is running. I'll probably end up paying more than I should for a new clutch but I'll just be happy to be back on the road and not relying on the mrs C1 which I can't stand.
User avatar
GiveMeABreak
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 36990
Joined: 15 Sep 2015, 19:38
Location: West Wales
My Cars: C3 Aircross SUV HDi Flair Peperoncino Red (The Chili Hornet)
C5 X7 2.0 HDi Exclusive Mativoire Beige (The Golden Hornet)
C3 1.6 HDi Exclusive Aluminium Grey (The Silver Hornet)
C5 MK II 2.0 HDi Exclusive Obsidian Black
C5 MK I 2.0 HDi SX Wicked Red
Xantia S2 2.0 HDi SX Hermes Red
C15 Romahome White
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Emerald Green Pearlescent
XM 2.0 Turbo Prestige Polar White
XM 2.0 SX Polar White
CX 20 Polar White
GS 1220 Geranium Red
CX 2.4 Prestige C-Matic Nevada Beige
GS 1000 Cedreat Yellow
x 5644

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes a common mistake and one that ‘some’ non-dealer garages patently do not pay enough attention to. Modern vehicle electronics (certainly from about 2000 on ) need to be understood properly - and this is why the dealers are generally more expensive, as they have to send their techs on regular official training courses to keep up with the developments.

I do hope you won’t be left out of pocket though and a lesson for the mechanic that did it :)
Please Don't PM Me For Technical Help

Marc
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Re: Damaged BSI unit

Post by wheeler »

Daz3nt wrote: 23 Mar 2018, 22:06 Found the fault, It seems the "Mechanic" disconnected the positive feed under the bonnet for jump starting etc which is right next to the ECU. The positive wire has touched the metal ECU case and has blown the ECU. The ECU bloke is trying to fix it if not the alternative is to replace it with a second Han ECU and he will program that to work with my BSI.

That's exactly what I said above & you said you had tried/checked everything we suggested ??
I take it you then have not tried earthing the ECU casing then ? I've had plenty of success in this situation by running an earth wire between the ECU casing & the chassis.
Post Reply