Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

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Skull
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Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 30 Oct 2017, 14:58

2000 Xantia SX 110 HYDRAULIC CLUTCH (130K)

Mrs has broken another one :twisted:

Whilst parking at low speed clutch pedal slammed itself to the floor and stayed there stuck in gear.

Called me to fix it 8-[ I've read some of the threads on here but nothing matches my symptoms:

Selects gears OK with the engine turned off.

The clutch pedal lifted back up and stayed up.

There doesn't appear to be any brake fluid leaks, the 'sealed system' reservoir still has some fluid in although I would say on the low side, if it were a normal reservoir.

The pedal now goes down a couple of inches before going stiff and resisting further movement. I bungeed the pedal to the steering wheel to stop it dropping before I took the clutch slave cylinder out and it seems intact and rod was still engaged / no leaks. My assistant pressed the clutch pedal 2-3mm and I can feel relevant movement on the slave rod so that all appears fine.

I removed the slave rod and located it on the clutch pivot arm and measured the distance . The slave rod (99mm) protrudes 20mm out of the external edge of the housing. I tried to push the fork lever through the hole where the clutch slave cylinder normally sits, but even using a longer socket bar it would not move at all. I've read on the other threads that you should be able to move it with hand pressure but it's solid.

So my uneducated guess is that some part of the clutch is seized / jammed / broken #-o :?:

Brand new MoT doesn't start till the 4th Nov 17 :roll:

Main thing that's confusing me is how did the pedal manage to slam itself all the way to the floor and stay there (as if a clutch cable broke) if the hydraulic system is still operating :?:
0x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 30 Oct 2017, 15:02

I'm going to remove the plate on the end of the gearbox bell-housing and see if I can see anything from that angle ....
0x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by CitroJim » 30 Oct 2017, 15:16

Skull, I expect the release bearing has pulled out of the centre of the clutch... A common enough happening on ML5 hydraulic clutches...

I did a clutch replacement on an Activa last year with this exact same problem and documented it here.

https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 14&t=54694

It's the same as an HDi 110 and will help you I'm sure...

Just be aware it's a long topic ;)

Only 36 pages :lol:
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 30 Oct 2017, 16:15

Oh joy :lol:

Cheers Jim :-D
1x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 30 Oct 2017, 18:43

Not a great view from the flywheel end ....I think a neighbour might have one of them endoscope type gadgets for viewing cavities ...

From that thread Jim main topic was a mere 20 pages [1-20]
daviemck2006 wrote:
03 Jun 2016, 12:20

It's a crying shame that [activas] are worth so little that a clutch failing is so dangerously close to writing it off and scrapping it. The three garages I asked for quotes, one said £1100, one said £1200, the other scratched his balls then said I couldn't possibly give you a price for that, I would charge by the hour. I assume that's garage speak for I don't want to do it but if I do then be ready to be ripped off big time!


I defiantly wont be paying anyone to replace it ...which leaves me in a dilemma with 2 Citroens now out of action one of which has a currently worthless 12 months MoT and needing a runner .....

Quick question Jim were Davie's symptoms the same as mine 'pedal goes solid after 2" of travel' :?:

Ohh another question from earlier ...how did the pedal slam itself to the floor :?:
0x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by daviemck2006 » 30 Oct 2017, 19:04

I was sitting at a junction with the clutch in and in 1st gear waiting for the gap in the traffic when it let go and stalled the engine with the pedal still on the floor. I lifted the pedal with my toe, took the car out of gear and started it. The pedal then went up and down, cant remember if it was right up and down but couldnt get gears. I started it in 1st gear, got moving and drove it the two miles home with clutchless gearchanges. It selected all the gears ok when running with the clutches gearchanges.
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by CitroJim » 30 Oct 2017, 19:09

Depending on how it's failed I can certainly see the pedal going solid - especially if the release bearing has broken up and damaged itself - which they usually do.
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 30 Oct 2017, 19:27

Thanks Davie / Jim almost finished reading the other thread

I will see if I can get an internal photo with the endoscope .....
1x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by flying clutchman » 31 Oct 2017, 13:05

This is how the pull type clutches usually go. As was mentioned in a previous post (apologies I can't remember who it was) the bearing pulls away from the cover. That's why your pedal hits the floor. It's not that bad a job to do really, just make sure you buy a genuine valeo clutch kit. It actually makes getting the box out easier with the clutch pulled apart like this.
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by CitroJim » 31 Oct 2017, 14:40

flying clutchman wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 13:05
Just make sure you buy a genuine valeo clutch kit. It actually makes getting the box out easier with the clutch pulled apart like this.


Yes indeed, excellent advice. Steer away from cheap clutch kits. They are false economy...

In some ways I find the MK5 Hydraulic easier to do than the BE3 cable type...

The job can just be done without removing the 'box completely. Just pull it to one side... Makes it easier.

All you need is a stubby alignment tool. I made one up for the job...

The 'box does need to come out if you need to replace the input shaft seal/release bearing guide...
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by flying clutchman » 31 Oct 2017, 16:32

never tried leaving the gearbox in, I always pull them right out. The gearbox isn't too heavy and it makes changing the clutch a lot quicker. I always do Mondeos as you describe but that's cos there's a great big subframe in the way!
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 31 Oct 2017, 16:33

Cheers Jim / Flying clutchman (What are you doing at the weekend :-D )

I'm not getting reply notifications for some reason (following option is ticked) [sorted now]

I think I know why the pedal is solid now ....Video of the horror that awaits .....Looks quite rusty in there only been parked for a few days although I believe the pressure surface is the other side (pull clutch) :?:

Last edited by GiveMeABreak on 31 Oct 2017, 16:56, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed Youtube Links
0x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
Image

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Skull
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Posts: 353
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Location: Darlington Co Durham
My Cars:
x 6

Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by Skull » 31 Oct 2017, 17:00

Cheers GiveMeABreak :oops:
0x
1 x Xsara HDi Coupe
3 x Xantia S2 HDi (2.1 TD SX)(1.9 TD Estate)
1 x Saxo 1.1i
1 x BX 1.9 d
4 x AX's (1.4D/1.5D/2x1.0)
2 x 406 (1.9 TD Estate/2.1 TD Saloon)
1 x 405 1.9 D Estate
1 x 306 1.9 XTDT
Others SL320, C250TD, Astra 1.3, Fiesta 1.1, TR7 Sprint, Escort 1.3
Image

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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by RichardW » 31 Oct 2017, 17:46

Yep, it's definitely buggered!!!
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Re: Xantia HDi hydraulic clutch

Post by CitroJim » 31 Oct 2017, 18:45

Skull wrote:
31 Oct 2017, 16:33
Cheers Jim / Flying clutchman (What are you doing at the weekend :-D )



Running and cycling ;)
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Jim

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