2009 C5 Steering Issue

[dmadders]

Hi, my first post after the introductions page, apologies if ive broken any forum etiquette or posted in wrong place?.....Ive got a bit of a problem with my motor and was hoping that someone may be able to help?

Couple of weeks ago, the steering went very heavy and notchy on my 2009 2.0 HDI Exclusive. Took it to my regular independent garage, who said straight away Steering Pump. Off the shelf from Citroen was £830, so located and brought one on Flea bay. Garage installed, exactly the same.

Next step - took it to Citroen main dealer this morning - 2 hours later, they said that it 'might' be the torsion bar located in the steering rack? Quoted just over 2 grand for new rack and pump, but the mechanic said that it might not fix the problem...'could be computers or electronics' etc etc

So, ive already spent a few quid and am no closer to knowing what the fault is. As you might expect...Im not keen to spend around 3 grand to see if something 'might' fix it! The car probably is not worth much more than that im guessing. I know that its possible that i have brought a 2nd hand pump with exactly the same issue as the one it replaced....but I would have thought that would have been pretty unlikely?

Ive no idea what to do next! Grateful for any advice or help. Thanks

[GiveMeABreak]

Have you had any fluid leaking from under the car and did the garage check your LDS fluid level to see if you had lost any? The steering racks are a known problem, just search the forum (my X7 included) Link Here.

Citroen will only replace the whole thing - hence the price. I would be a bit miffed having forked out that amount for a new pump unnecessarily on the advice of my mech though.... The issue with the leaking racks tends to be the input shaft rusting and corroding the seals. Hoepfuilly if it's not leaking. Try bleeding the system - suspension on high, then on low and then turn the steering lock to lock several times. Switch off engine and check LDS fluid level should be between the min and max marks.

In case it looks like you do have the leaking issue - it may be worth ringing these chaps - they make a mod incorporating a second seal, and in the gap they fill it with grease to help prevent water ingress.
http://www.powerracksdirect.co.uk/Hydraulic-PAS-racks

[dmadders]

Thanks for the reply Marc. Ill have a read, and contact the guys.
The pump I brought off ebay was just shy of £200, so im not too much out of pocket yet, and I can always stick it back on and resell to someone who might need it!
Ive not noticed any puddles on the drive, but then it has been wet from the rain a lot over the last few weeks..... the independent did say when he undid the cap where the fluid goes that it shouldnt really make a noise (like sucking air)? He didnt say anything about it below the level it should be, and I would have thought that the main dealer would have checked.....Im not mechanically minded, so I just go with what they say! Suspension still goes up and down although slower than I remember it doing it before? - Truth be told, its the first time ive raised or lowered it since buying the car!

[jgra1]

hi d, I don't want to steer you down the wrong path
on my 2010, I have an electrical gremlin.. occasionally.. but when this surfaces, one of the many side effects is a sudden heavy steering/ loss of power steering.. it';s very obvious when it happens, and could easily be described as 'notchy' steering.. in reality I think the electric steering pump is switching on an off..
I wonder if there is a simple way to test the voltage going to the pump, for a few journeys, to see if you can pinpoint this situation, and therefore not the pump and the rack.. but I am a bit short of ideas..
like I say, its just my experience, and its only a couple of weeks in, so I am not 100% sure exactly what is going on with mine..

John

[GiveMeABreak]

Thanks for the reply Marc. Ill have a read, and contact the guys. ..... the independent did say when he undid the cap where the fluid goes that it shouldnt really make a noise (like sucking air)? He didnt say anything about it below the level it should be, and I would have thought that the main dealer would have checked.....Im not mechanically minded, so I just go with what they say! Suspension still goes up and down although slower than I remember it doing it before? - Truth be told, its the first time ive raised or lowered it since buying the car!

Well from what you describe, it sounds like it may need bleeding - now, from what you say, the replacement pump has been fitted - but there is a specific procedure to bleed the Hydractive C5s to fully eliminate any bubbles, so here's a link to a PDF with the whole procedure for you in case you need it for reference or to check whether it has been done. Ignore the parts for 'Metallic Suspension' using that tool - that's for the systems without Hydractive suspension and a seperate Power Steering Fluid Reservoir.

Guide

I light of John's reply - another good thing to check - electrical connections and earthing. Again, I'll assume that as they changed the pump and removed/replaced the elecrtical connectors that it wasn't that they were loose - but always worth checking the earthing points near that system too.

[dmadders]

hi d, I don't want to steer you down the wrong path
on my 2010, I have an electrical gremlin.. occasionally.. but when this surfaces, one of the many side effects is a sudden heavy steering/ loss of power steering.. it';s very obvious when it happens, and could easily be described as 'notchy' steering.. in reality I think the electric steering pump is switching on an off..
I wonder if there is a simple way to test the voltage going to the pump, for a few journeys, to see if you can pinpoint this situation, and therefore not the pump and the rack.. but I am a bit short of ideas..
like I say, its just my experience, and its only a couple of weeks in, so I am not 100% sure exactly what is going on with mine..

John

I had a couple of days of what you describe. Unfortunately, before I could get into the garage, it became more persistent!

[dmadders]

Well from what you describe, it sounds like it may need bleeding - now, from what you say, the replacement pump has been fitted - but there is a specific procedure to bleed the Hydractive C5s to fully eliminate any bubbles, so here's a link to a PDF with the whole procedure for you in case you need it for reference or to check whether it has been done.

Guide

Thanks Marc, appreciated. Will see if that makes any improvement!

[Paul-R]

... it may be worth ringing these chaps - they make a mod incorporating a second seal, and in the gap they fill it with grease to help prevent water ingress.
http://www.powerracksdirect.co.uk/Hydraulic-PAS-racks

I had a close read of your story again Marc and couldn't work out if you gave the price that the company in your link above charges.

I may have an ulterior motive on this. My car just turned through 40,000 miles on the trip down through France this week so it seems to be in the danger zone. And about two weeks ago I noticed a slight strangeness with the steering. When I was accelerating lightly (second gear I think) on a motorway slip road I noticed that the steering seemed to be bit stiff moving to the next lane. Backing off the throttle restored the steering to normal. I wondered whether it might have been the first sign of a CV joint on its way out but reading this thread I'm not so sure.

[GiveMeABreak]

I had to have mine done at Citroen Paul, as the car was under Citroen Extended Warranty - the prices in the older post was what Citroen would of charged me and what they bill the warranty company that underwrites the policies. Any warranty work and Citroen pull out the goalies - full replacements, no faffing about with repairs to parts. Same with the window regulator I just had done - the wire corroded like they all do - no mucking about - they replaced the whole unit, motor assembly, the lot!

Back onto the steering, I never actually had any steering problems with mine at all - no lumpiness or stiffness - they only noticed the oil leaking doing the other job - and of course I noticed the pool of oil beginning to get worse (which I always mistook for water from the air con pipe, untill it stopped raining and the patch was still there! ). I seemed to have everything happen in a short space of time - crankshaft oil seal, resulting in oil contaminating the new clutch and DMF, so another new clutch! Then the wiper motor..... etc etc.

That company I found was when I was awaiting the warranty decision on the work from the dealer, so was looking to see if those would be any better and certainly if I had to pay for it I wouldn't want to be replacing it again. I never actually got round to ringing them in the end as the warranty work was approved the same day. I still can't believe the number of people with these racks - should definately be the subject of a recall, but a bit late in the day now. What does it take before it becomes an unnacceptable problem one asks?

[Paul-R]

What does it take before it becomes an unnacceptable problem one asks?

When I mentioned the steering rack as a known problem at my Citroen dealer they said they didn't know anything about it.

[GiveMeABreak]

When I mentioned the steering rack as a known problem at my Citroen dealer they said they didn't know anything about it.

At £2k plus a pop is it any wonder? Cue Paramedics at the dealership....


"How much"?

Unless you have a warranty that's big bucks for most - and they will likely get it done elsewhere so the problem becomes hidden. There's been quite a few on CCC who have had the problem - but I'm sure there are loads of people that don't use Fora to post - just to research and then get the job done elsewhere.

[bobins]

Powerracksdirect say they only supply direct to the trade/established garages

[GiveMeABreak]

Powerracksdirect say they only supply direct to the trade/established garages

It might be worth getting your local mech to get the part on your behalf - did they give a price by any chance when you contacted them?

[Peter.N.]

Just a thought, you haven't got a front brake binding have you? I know it sounds odd but I nearly replaced the rack on my 406 because the power assistance was intermittent and the steering lumpy - turned out to be a seized n/s front caliper. I also had changed the pump first, didn't cost me anything though is I have a complete spare car.

Peter

[dmadders]

Thanks for all the advice - no luck with any of it so flogged it to 'we buy any car' this morning. They only knocked off £125 for the steering issue which is a bit of a bonus!! All in all, im down a few quid against what the book says its worth, but managed to get back a third of what I paid for the car 2 years and 40000 miles ago so im as content as im going to be.