C3 Possible Turbo Failure?

[hamster99]

Wife's 2006 C3 1.6 HDI VTR developed a problem today where it had absolutely no power under load and on any slight incline just kept getting slower and slower.

When I looked at it when I got home from work it started fine and idled OK but when revved it emits a rather loud metallic rattle.

I'm thinking possible turbo failure and will have a better look on the weekend so at the moment it's sitting on the drive.

Any thoughts?

Rob

[waynedance]

Does the air in take pipe from intercooler to inlet manifold expand when the engine is revved up?

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[RichardW]

That's exactly what ours did when the turbo went.... start it up and listen to the turbo with a screwdriver or something held to your ear, which should confirm the origin of the noise, then pop off the inlet hose, and feel for play in the shaft - there should be none, but my guess is you will find it slopping about....

It's not that hard to change it, and not that dear if you buy a new cartridge and rebuild it yourself. Info on getting the turbo out here http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... =3&t=47249" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And I also went into some detail on citroenmad's blog here: http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... start=1745" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Slightly more awkward if it's a 110 with DPF. You need to drop the sump and clean it out, and remove / clean / replace the oil pickup (it's only £15). Remove and drain the intercooler. Remove the filter from the turbo oil feed pipe what ever you do!!

[citroenxm]

In parallel to Richards turbo job I also was doing one at the same time .. turbos can be had complete now for just under 300 quid. Though I went turbo cartridge route.

turbo swap is easy on these but it is everything else you need to check and clean that takes the time .. I went down the route of sump off and cam covers off inlet manifolds off to clean the coke build up.. The turbo supplier insists the checks are done to guarantee the new unit. However one theory is the injector clamp nuts come loose which causes the Turbo failure by letting burnt soot into the oil way..

Has your oil level miraculously disappeared? If so then most of it will be in the intercooler .. my sisters oil was. This and the non operational turbo will cause the air flow restriction..

[Richard_C]

Our 1.4hdi suffered similar symptoms, tickover OK but no power on hills, then no power at all, and it turned out to be an injector failure. No oil loss. Worth a proper check before you invest in a turbo.

[hamster99]

Thanks for the advice everyone, especially RichardW's very helpful detailed experience on your picasso.

Had a good look this morning and it is, as I thought, a turbo failure. The shaft wobbles about a huge amount and end movement must be at least 2 or 3mm. There is also quite a lot of oil in the air intakes.

So, I now have to do another turbo rebuild although this should be a walk in the park compared to the C5 2.0 HDI I did a few months back. At least this time I can do it standing up rather than flat on my back under the car.

So far today I have stripped the whole front off the car, as I decided it would be easier than trying to work in the small space between the radiator/intercooler mounting panel and the turbo/cat/dpf and heatshields. It also means I can get round to renewing the aircon condensor which sits between the radiator and front grille, which needs the bumber off anyway.

I would definitely recommend removing the whole front as it give you a huge amount of access to everything. Once I removed the bumper, grille, radiator/intercooler panel and the steel bumper crossmember, the cat/dpf and turbo were off in a matter of minutes. As long as you plan how you are going to tackle it, it's not too tricky. Have ordered the new turbo cartridge, oil pipes etc and will be removing the sump and cleaning tomorrow. If I had all the bits already then I reckon all in it would only be a weekend job.

Just like RichardW I also broke a couple of fixings when removing the twin throttle body thingy and also can't for the life of me think why citroen ended up with such a stupid and largely pointless way of fixing it. It seems to be some impossible magic trick of you can only get at the fixing when you take the throttle body off but you can't take the throttle body off as you can't get at the fixings!!! I'm not sure yet how I am going to get it fixed again, might be some strategically placed tie wraps.

Although some frustrations so far, this is far far easier than the turbo in the C5...

[RichardW]

I just stuck the doser valve back in and tightened the hose clamps - it wobbles a bit, but seems none the worse for it! There must be a trick to removing the doser valve - if only we knew what it is Taking the whole front off seems a bit extreme, it was pretty easy on the C4 Picasso with the rad out - but maybe the C3 is a tad more Bijou Any tips on getting the exhaust clamps to let go - the one on the turbo was a swine, took me 30 mins to convince the bolt to let go so I could get it off!!

'cos I'm a glutton for punishment, I've just bought another 1.6 HDi 110. First job will be the filter on the turbo feed pipe....

[hamster99]

Yes, I think the C3 is a little short of front end space compared to the Picasso.

In my view, the extra half hour to remove the front end (it's actually pretty simple) is well worth it for the extra space and the fact you can get to everything without losing too much skin off your hands and arms

As for the doser valve, you're probably right that it won't wobble too much with four pipes connected. If not then I may resort to some gripfix.....

The exhaust clamp issue I managed to suss when I did the turbo on my C5. I cut the first one off as, like yourself, it was proving a bugger to loosen even though I had taken the nut off completely and hammered it within an inch of its life. After I cut it off I noticed that it relied on the funny shaped washer that the nut tightens onto to actually grip the thread after the nut was removed but noticed that it had a ridge on it. What I discovered on the second one which attached to the turbo and on the 2.0 HDI you can't get at to cut anyway is that if you take a large flat blade screwdriver, insert it between the strange washer and the clamp on the outside of the thread and twist it, then it releases completely and you can then remove the clamp....it's that easy...!!!!

I'll try and post a picture showing how it's done in the next few days.

Rob

[RichardW]

Interesting, I'd figured out it was the 'washer' holding it all together - it tilts over and then grabs the bolt. Couldn't see an easy way of releasing it, but you have obviously figured one out I was seriously contemplating taking the angle grinder to the one on the turbo, as it just wouldn't relent. Bought a pair of the proper pliers before I rebuilt it - this makes taking the spring band on and off a sinch, which was the second awkward part of operating these these clamps!

[hamster99]

Where did you get your special pliers? I haven't been able to find any online.

[RichardW]

E-bay - I got them here as they were cheapest! Worth every penny, even though I have only had to refit 2 clamps so far

[RichardW]

hamster99 is a top man!!

Did the 307 turbo oil filter today - clamp on the turbo was tight, applied hamster trick with a big screwdriver and it let go immediately with a big clang One on the bottom was another matter and needed the attention of Mr A Grinder to free it

[hamster99]

Glad to help Richard
Rob