Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

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charentejohn
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Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

That is the question........what to look for and any warnings.

Just looked at a Xsara hatchback 1.6 petrol automatic, looks and runs perfectly, 2001 model. This is for my wife who needs an auto car, also has leather interior so she is already sold on it.

We are in France so system is slightly different and dealer is working from a locked compound, as they do here, so you call him for an appointment and he meets you there. We turned up on spec and he was showing someone else a car so did start it up, it was covered in frost but started and ran instantly so so far so good. It was behind a load of other cars that would need moving before driving it so we left it that we would call him in a few days for a test drive.

Car details are
He got it from a main dealer, possibly via auctions, dealers tend to not have cars more than 3 yrs old in stock so sounds ok.
One owner car, here known as a 'Voiture Pappy' or Grandad's car.
Car has only done 22k miles as the owner died some time ago but it was left in a garage for 3 years.
Only one service stamp in 2003 at 12k miles so I assume it was garaged about 2008 when it should have been serviced.
Engine started and ran smoothly on tickover.
Seat height lever won't lock in high (wife 5'0" so important) but he said only a missing clip and he would have it fixed.

I will check on the cost of my local garage doing a service, all oils / filter inc box, timing belt, pump and aux belt changes and try to knock this off the price. It needs doing and I would rather my local garage did it. He is a 'secondary' citroen garage in that he is recognised by Citroen but not a main dealer. I would rather see it done tha be told it was done.

Any things I should listen for ? Any know faults for this model ? Any thoughts on problems arising from standing for 3 years ?
I heard the gearbox is easy to change on these, just in case for the future ? Rough idea of average out of town driving mpg as an auto ? autotrader says manual/auto are no different.

All info gratefully recieved.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by Peter.N. »

Personally I wouldn't buy a petrol or an auto but if you not doing a high mileage and it drives OK I don't see any reason why it should give any problems, especially at that mileage. Go for a good long drive in it and see how it goes.

Peter
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

I would prefer diesel too but very few here, three at the momen, nearest one 4hrs drive away.
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Post by addo »

Being a 2001 AL4, it will probably need the upper two solenoids swapping for the revised type and software updating.

Not hugely dear, but essential. If this is ignored and the car simply driven, the gearbox will (from my experience/observations) generally be somewhat nasty to drive even if the work is done later.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

Thanks for the info I will watch the changes in the box. I assume gear changes are harsh or softer if not correct.
So as low miles (probably) changing them now would be worth doing. I never mind anticipating a problem where possible.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by Citroenmad »

If your mileage is low then a Petrol will suit just find, plus you have the diesel Xantia for the longer trips.

What year is the Xsara? I guess its well overdue a cambelt change as they are every 5 or 6 years I think. I would also bet its one service stamp to be true and probably did an awul lot of short runs, putting petrol into the oil and so lessening lubrication. Check that the engine isnt ticking or knocking, it has been known on low mileage and poorly serviced petrols. Wear can set in early with that kind of use.

No doube a gearbox oil change will be a good idea too.

If its a decent price and not massivly over the odds for a low mileage car then it might be worth taking the plunge.

I prefer to buy low mileage cars, but only if I can have some knowledge that the car has been used as a second or long distance car, rather than a car used daily for just a mile or two. In that case higher mileage cars are the better bets.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

I will look out for ticking noises, I think it was 'ticking' a bit when it first started but then again temp was about +5C but as it was in the shade the car was covered in frost. It went away affter a few minutes as it warmed up but I will watch for it when test driving, keeping the windows open when passing walls to reflect the sound always helps.

2001 model and price here is £3000 (I know it is high but correct for here) and to be fair it is top of the range and unmarked. I would not pay more than £2600 with £400 for servicing. Failing that he can keep it as some nice 120k mile diesels about, but not nearby so there is a convnience factor to consider.

I also prefer a genuine higher mileage car, in the old days (when I were a lad :) ) mileage was important but these days 100k is not a problem if looked after. This is to replace a 2000 Merc A-class with broken auto box which has only done 38k miles, hence my worry. In this case saying it is very low miles is not reassuring, I keep thinking, low miles so just like the Merc then ....? :(

I doubt the belt was changed after 2 year so basically it is 10 yrs old so well overdue. I imagine the water pump is ok but may as well do it as part of the package ?
Standing for 3 years is also not a positive, although dealer (and a lot of people) think it is. Muck accumulates and things sieze up, they then free up but can reduce their life as a result. A good example is grease which can harden if not regularly heated up by movement and is never really right again.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by Citroenmad »

Has it been parked outside or inside for the 3 years left standing? Id closly check the dates on he tyres and see how aged they look, as standing does tyres no good at all, especially in the heating and colling of France. Might be something else to budget in for.

What do you plan on doing with your Merc? It can't be scrap with only 38K miles? Is it petrol or diesel?

I would get the water pump done fr peace of mind, its a cheap thing to replace and should be good for the life of the belt after that.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

A good point on looking at the tyres for signs of wear, such as sun damage (cracking) if stored outside. Some concerns on such as rubber and plastic seals that have hardened due to inactivity, they do need to be heated up and worked occasionally.
He did say garaged, and lots of storage here so probably indoors, but not necessarily all the time.
You are right in that saving a few Euros for a water pump would be pointless, since a new belt should last a while worth doing.

I believe 'er indoors' likes it, and it is a nice car so no problem in general. Just trying to anticipate / negotiate / test based on possible problems. My wife is away next week but suggested I give it a test and see what I think, I can do the gearbox, rough road and dual carriageway tests. When she returns we can see it again with a view to buying. Sounds like a plan.
Our fench neighbours are both driving instructors so know their cars and can go with us for the final purchase to make sure we do it right. Since the last service 8 years are unaccounted for, 3 in storage ?, so best to have someone who can ask the right questions. Annie, one of the neighbours mentioned, is not someone to mess with so I would guess she will decide if what he says is plausible.

All cars are a shot in the dark when buying and I don't mind general repairs but don't want anything major for a few years. After that it is all ok. Merc is worth something but cheapest box repair is 3k Euros, car worth 2.5k Euros, Mercedes know this but don't really care. Mainly why I want a french car that local garages can repair. Like they say 'fool me once shame on you', 'fool me twice shame on me'. First and last time I buy a car that can't be economically repaired.


Is there a specific fluid for the gearbox as I would want to change this (you all know how paranoid I am about this by now) so I can provide this to the garage, rather than let them use standard stuff. The car has all manuals etc so may be in there but worth knowing anyway.
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Post by addo »

LT71141 (Total, Mobil or Esso) is stipulated fluid for these gearboxes. Not super cheap per litre! Accept substitutes entirely at your own risk...

The Peugeot/Citroën AL4 is damn near the same as the Renault DPO gearbox and both have the solenoid problem. Renault solenoids may be cheaper in France than Peugeot prices but typically less than 70 Euro each, TTC. To change these upper two and swap two litres-odd of fluid is standard fodder for a competent garage versed in these gearboxes and takes less than two hours elapsed time including a diagnotic session and the software update.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

Thanks Addo, I will check this out with local garage as I believe they have the software and disgnostic kit for this sort of thing.

As you mention this is near enough the same as the Renault box (not good news as our old Megane has never been right) can I ask if you know the answer to the big Renault question. The renault box has a habit, after 2 miles exactly, of the gearbox warning light coming on and 'limp home' being engaged, sometimes with a thump. Stop and start again and it resets itself and usually ok for the rest of the day. Changes are always very slow on hills, sometimes not at all. All worse the more people in the car.

So..... Is this the problem you mentioned in an earlier reply ?
So if I don't change them then at some time the above symptoms will occur, then changing the solenoids and software is too late and it may stop the warning light but will never be right again ?

Does the box have to be opened up (sump removed) to fit the solenoids, not a problem but nice to know. A new filter would need the sump off the box anyway. I have a manual which gives circuit diagrams but no details of the box itself.
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Post by addo »

Yes, that is exactly the same problem and it requires an identical solution. If your garage could not sort this for you, it's time for a new mechanic.

If you've driven it for more than a while in this state, the torque converter may be affected. This aspect comes from personal observation in ones where after the fluid and solenoid work, there remains excessive vibration or shudder in all modes.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

Good to know that is the cause of this because it is a real pain when it happens. To some extent worse because the car can be driven but just not good so you tend to just live with it.

To be fair to the garage(s) that have tried to sort it they didn't seem to know this solution but by then it was probably too late.
The usual solution was to replace the transmission fluid, this did help but only for a few months then it would return to exactly the same problems. Now changing fluid makes little or no difference, too far gone I think.

I will get a price for this as little to pay up front if about 300 Euro ish.
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Post by addo »

Have a look at date of creation for the page linked below:

http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... lenoid.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Being blunt, your garage are not doing right by you and deserve no further trust. They should know; it is France and there were tens - if not hundreds - of thousands of cars sold with the affected gearbox.
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Re: Xsara 1.6 petrol auto - to buy or not to buy

Post by charentejohn »

Excellent link Addo, thanks again, that is perfect for talking to a garage here as sometimes difficult to explain things.
I can show them the diagrams and part nos, I could translate it using google if necessary, so there can be no misunderstanding.

Basically Renault deny there is a problem but there are loads of people complaining, not sure of any specific bad years but seemed lots of people had problems. Reports of rebuilt or recon boxes failing at 30-40k miles so I assume they just rebuilt with the same parts that caused the fault. Our Renault started at 40k miles, now on 75k.

Based on that I could expect trouble with the Xsara box sometime soon, say within 10k miles. I will make sure it is checked properly if we buy it.
This won't put me off the car as it seems a lot of cars, inc Xantia, have the AL4 box so hard to avoid. This is exactly whay I asked for info on any problems, so I can buy knowing what to expect.

Edited to add this link " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is a bit naff to use, the site's own search does not find the pages that google does, but ths info is good.
Google, for example AL4 solenoid or gearbox etc. and then follow that.
Apparently a place to share documents or info, a bit like Wikipedia but paying to download or print isn't voluntary but you can read online ok.
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