Check your POSITIVE batery lead!! PICS ADDED!!

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citroenxm
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Check your POSITIVE batery lead!! PICS ADDED!!

Post by citroenxm » 19 Jan 2012, 13:39

So.. this week, I learent a bit about potetiial fire hazard.. Even on LATE Xantia HDi's...

Main car in Question as in my blog.. Mums Y reg 2001 HDi 110.

Basically, the car failed to start and had always been slow to start.. unit it failed this week. So thinking as quick as sticking a new battery on.. this was fine untill I looked a bit deeper, and also noticed when the engine was running the Positive connection on the battery got hot... HOT.. V HOT.. to even changing colour!

Casue? The positive leads had all mealted together through a high resistance in the lead.. It had it in two places.. right on the terminal, and a bit further down the starter lead...
Swapped it all for another that was not stiff in any area.. connected it all back up.. now, a nice cold terminal. AND a starter that SPINS freely and not slughisly like a low battery cause!
Last edited by citroenxm on 13 May 2012, 12:59, edited 2 times in total.
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1991 XM 3.0 24v Manual (x2)
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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by DickieG » 19 Jan 2012, 17:25

This is quite a common problem now, hence why I changed the terminal on my HDi.
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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jan 2012, 18:08

It's getting to be a problem on my Activa now...

Paul, if you don't mind I'd like to write a small piece about this in the Citroenian.. Is that OK?

Do you have any pictures?
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citroenxm
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My Cars: 93 L Xantia TD SX anti sink
H 91 XM V6 24v PRV Manual
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55 C5 1.6 HDi VTR
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto
51 C5 LX HDi 2.0 auto
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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by citroenxm » 19 Jan 2012, 18:38

Hi jim.. No pics on mums one.. But i need to do the job again on the red taxi car....

By all means jim please do write up.. Theres no need to ask me...
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1991 XM 3.0 24v Manual (x2)
1994 XM 2.1 d auto (undecided what to do now)

1994 Xantia TD SX Project
s**t thats scarey... two XMs left...

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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jan 2012, 18:42

Thanks Paul :-D

citroenxm wrote:Theres no need to ask me...


Oh yes there is!!! It's only right that I do I think...
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citroenxm
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H 91 XM V6 24v PRV Manual
K 93 XM V6 12v SEi auto LPG

55 C5 1.6 HDi VTR
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto
51 C5 LX HDi 2.0 auto
x 21

Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by citroenxm » 19 Jan 2012, 18:49

I doubt ill get the job done next weekend with pics in time for your deadline... But ill put them on here...
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1991 XM 3.0 24v Manual (x2)
1994 XM 2.1 d auto (undecided what to do now)

1994 Xantia TD SX Project
s**t thats scarey... two XMs left...

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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jan 2012, 18:57

citroenxm wrote:I doubt ill get the job done next weekend with pics in time for your deadline... But ill put them on here...


No worries Paul... The deadline is this weekend.. I've got to sharpen the quill soon...
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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by robert_e_smart » 19 Jan 2012, 19:39

CitroJim wrote: The deadline is this weekend.. I've got to sharpen the quill soon...


Damn, I better get my thinking hat on as well!
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Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by CitroJim » 19 Jan 2012, 20:07

The deadline seems to have come up very quickly this month Robert... :twisted:
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Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by DickieG » 19 Jan 2012, 20:36

CitroJim wrote:The deadline seems to have come up very quickly this month Robert... :twisted:

I found that happened every month :lol:
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Re: Check you POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by Dippy » 19 Jan 2012, 23:26

DickieG wrote:This is quite a common problem now, hence why I changed the terminal on my HDi.


May be worth checking the EARTH lead ? or better still fit a new one .

My Syn now has two - 1 from Batt to Engine block ( on a starter / bellhousing bolt ) + original Batt to Chassis earth lead .

No more hot leads + much better starting - even before I replaced the Starter.

Doesn't the Earth lead become sacrificial on a NEG - . Earth Car ? and deteriorates badly over time . and is probably a contributory factor in many Sherpa Coupe's ( Pos Earth +) rotting away so quickly .
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Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by charentejohn » 21 Jan 2012, 00:20

I am used to AC circuits, I have no direct DC experience but know those who have and have always considered it a less forgiving source than AC. Having had lots of AC shocks.

Bottom line is that current is constant in all parts of a circuit so when, for instance, you start the car a large current passes through the pos lead through the starter and back through the neg lead. Most voltage is consumed by the highest resistance so if there is a bad connection that will consume most voltage so ultimately power, if it is not doing anything useful like spinning a starter motor it generates heat instead. Power burned in a bad connection takes it away from the intended use, starter motor for instance, so it runs slowly. Seen this loads of times in badly fitted, melted, 12V downlighters.
My brother in law, an electrical engineer, did explain the science to me once but still hazy on this.

Keeping connections clean is always a good thing but a broken or damaged lead is not easy to spot. Earth leads are usually braided so good at flexing with engine vibration. So are copper leads but heat and flexing hardens them, eventually they fracture so a 10mm lead can become a 5mm lead, or less, at one point. If so more heat more hardening more failures.

Seems like this is the case here so worth checking changing a lead if you can, heat will be at the point of highest resistance
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Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!!

Post by CitroJim » 21 Jan 2012, 16:04

charentejohn wrote:I am used to AC circuits, I have no direct DC experience but know those who have and have always considered it a less forgiving source than AC. Having had lots of AC shocks.


I try not to get any shocks... I've been involved with both high voltage AC and DC all my life and in my trade there was an old saying 'There's bold electricians and there's old electriciand but there's no old, bold electricians' Very true sadly...

Yes AC is more 'forgiving' in the sense that if you get a belt from it you can often pull yourself away from the source as the alternating current causes your muscles to contract and relax. DC is not 'forgiving' as it causes muscles to contract and not relax and hence you will be unable to free yourself from the source.

A funny illustration of this is in household mains wiring. The grub screws tightened against the wires in bulbholders, switches and sockets will work loose over a period of time due entirely to the alternating (50 times per second) nature of AC mains. A loose grubscrew in a plug say, on a 3KW electric file will get rather hot due to the high resistance presented by the poor connection and can melt the plug. Seen it many times.

This is why all mains wiring in a house should be periodically inspected by a qualified sparky and is undoubtedly the cause of many house fires.

The reason a high resistance anywhere in any circuit causes a voltage drop and heat can be simply explained by Ohm's law V=IR and Power P=IV. In a resistance P will always be dissipated as heat and this in high current carrying cables will cause them to burn.
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citroenxm
Posts: 8009
Joined: 31 Dec 2004, 00:10
Location: I WISH I KNEW!!!!. Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: 93 L Xantia TD SX anti sink
H 91 XM V6 24v PRV Manual
K 93 XM V6 12v SEi auto LPG

55 C5 1.6 HDi VTR
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto
51 C5 LX HDi 2.0 auto
x 21

Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!! PICS ADDED

Post by citroenxm » 13 May 2012, 12:48

I just wanted to REVIVE this thread, as it IS a very important one I think for the sake of fire hazards!!

Ive got some images too of what happens or has been happening to your wires:

Image

Image

Image


DO NOT THINK ITS NOT HAPPENING TO YOUR CAR IF YOUR ON ORIGINAL TERMINALS!!!!!!

The best thing to do is to replace the whole lot from the positive to the altinator! AS this cable is in the visinety of the hot engine it does deteriate!

After a changed mums from the altinator to battery the car starts much much better, turns over faster, and chrages nicely!


Id also like to add. I had a charging issue on my S1 24v XM. I fitted a new charge lead from the altinator to battery, and where I was getting on around 13.5v running at 3k, this then changed to a much better 14v after the replacment.
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1991 XM 3.0 24v Manual (x2)
1994 XM 2.1 d auto (undecided what to do now)

1994 Xantia TD SX Project
s**t thats scarey... two XMs left...

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Re: Check your POSITIVE batery lead!! PICS ADDED!!

Post by aerodynamica » 23 Aug 2012, 12:33

Hi all, I'm keen on w pre- winter service on the xantia that includes the battery terminal. Would you recommend a source for a replacement?
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Graeme M
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