Dispatch fuel pump

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 06:56

Hi all not been on since the broken tailgate wiring on my xantia episode,
now fixed thanks to the help of you guys,and sailed through the mot friday with only 1 advisory.
Just aquired a 98 dispatch non turbo,with fuel pump (fault) non runner at the moment, this is in brackets as when we got the van home the keypad was disconnected.
I have heard that they can be disconnected whilst running and will work without it for an unknown period of time.
When reconnected the red and green light are on so possibly bad earth on gearbox, broken wire on plug to keypad.
Will look at this today,also will be calling the old owner to see if he has the code for it.
Now this is the point of the post if he doesnt have the code it is possible to:

1. get an ecu with a known code fit it and hey presto, do I have to use the ecu of a non turbo model.
2. can the ecu be taken off the vehicle and read to find out the code that has been stored.
3. dont really want to go this route but replacing the stop solinoid in the pump to bypass the system,I have read the post on this and am able to carry out this sort of work but would prefer to go other routes first.

Any help or advice on this would be great.

spider · Post by **spider** » 02 Jul 2011, 09:38

1. You are correct in that both red and green on the keypad means there's a problem between the keypad / pump and less likely the CPH (if fitted, a "box of tricks" under the dash) , broken wires around the keypad are likely.

2. Officially no. Unofficially, well its a mask / flash rom so in theory someone with the correct kit could do it, although I do not know anyone who offers this service.

3. Its a bit of work but its one way and then its done away with forever.

Regarding the 'unplug the keypad' thing. This does work and people do it, but it *only* will work if the pump is unlocked, it does nothing if its locked. Basically you would put your code in, get a green light then unplug the keypad. It will stay "unlocked" either permanently or until the battery is disconnected (varies per model)

As you don't want to do (3) , I'd spend some time carefully looking at the wiring then. Even if the CPH / Pump are mismatched it does not cause both lights on. That always indicates an issue with the connection.

Hope that's a bit of a start (no pun intended) , personally I'd do (3) if it was mine but I can understand why you'd rather not.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 13:22

Thanks for that spider contacted the old owner and no joy with a code,
looks like the keypad was disconected with the code in so has been happily starting UNTIL we just found out the glow plugs have been changed.
So I guess the battery has been disconected reconected and made the stop solonoid kick back in.
we are just going through the wires on the keypad plug found one broken wire and two damaged wires so far,will keep on with that.
what else makes both red and green to come on and stay on.
So looks like we will have to go the route of changing the stop solonoid.

spider · Post by **spider** » 02 Jul 2011, 16:32

The red+green is a fault indication, broken wires. It means "no communication" which is the same thing really.

, you may find its OK with the keypad wires.

Default code is 1111 when they are brand new. If its working try that first, you get three attempts before it locks out for an hour (leave ignition on to start the "countdown" in most cases) , if its not that sometimes wear on various buttons may indicate the code as people use things like year of birth or suchlike.

To actually get at the stop solenoid (its not just a solenod on these) involves pump removal as its protected hence most people do away with the expensive "coded anti start" module that's there and fit a conventional solenoid as its a fair bit of work.

Your actual 'fault' is the wiring between the keypad / CPH unit / Pump module (in the pump) or one of those actual items.

EDIT... As you mention glowplugs, carefully ( ! ) check that all earth leads are back on, if you leave one off (on a 406 at least) you can cause this to happen sometimes.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 19:12

Thanks again andy, we went the dismabtle the parts covering the solenoid way which was supprisingly easy the shear bolts were not as tight as I thought.
Attatched a live directly to the top AND still no go.
It clicks ok so I assume it is opening and closing as it should,cracked open a pipe from the back of the pump but no squirt not even a dribble.
took the feed banjo off and spent the next hour filling the pump manually tiny squirt by tiny squirt until it stopped running down into the pump.
Tightened everything back up but still no joy.
Maybe the pump is Knackered

.
Do you think it is worth getting a new seal kit or just replacing with a known good pump.I would go for one that has no immobiliser on it as it would be easier to find maybe off a ZX.
One thing we noticed with 12volts attached to the solenoid if kept on for about a minute it has small bubbles coming out where the metal meets the black plastic insulator.
Is it possible to take the solenoid out without taking the high pressure section off the back.

spider · Post by **spider** » 02 Jul 2011, 19:22

The solenoid is only screwed in nothing more. Are you sure you did not just apply power to the antistart module fitted over the pump itself ?

Some pics here of the Bosch one > http://www.eastment.net/boschpump2.htm courtesy of Jim

, note the black lump (that's the module)

Is it a Bosch or Lucas pump ?

If you remove the solenoid and then remove its spring / plunger etc and refit it, the engine should run (you will have to use the manual stop lever to turn it off)

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 19:34

It is a bosch we left the pump in situe whilst doing the job so all the metalwork of the bracket is still in place

.
Looks like the solenoid wont come out without taking the back section off the pump.
There is no stop lever on this pump

.

spider · Post by **spider** » 02 Jul 2011, 20:09

Its there, or should be otherwise it would probably not idle very well.

* Borrows and chops one of Jim's pics * (sorry Jim)

Red arrow, that 'arm' moves when you press it across.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 20:23

To my untrained eye that pump looks like an old ROTO DIESEL pre 1990 job.
Just trying to get a photo of the pump will post it up if I can work out how

.
Half way accross your arrow is the solenoid I connected to.

spider · Post by **spider** » 02 Jul 2011, 20:26

That is the stop solenoid (halfway across the arrow 'shaft') that pump has had the armouring / module removed.

I bet you powered up the module which would not work like that at a guess.

You can host pics on photobucket or similar site, then use IMG tags to link to them here. > http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=35470 , its easier than it looks to do.

EDIT... I'm off in a moment and likely to not be here tomorrow till late or not till Monday, but I guess others will pick this up anyway if not.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 02 Jul 2011, 20:37

Just a quick reply no did'nt power the module (thats in bits)just put power to the stop solenoid.
Will post up photos as soon as I can but will catch up with you when you get back thanks Andy.

spider · Post by **spider** » 04 Jul 2011, 09:37

Well I'm back now

Any progress ?

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 04 Jul 2011, 09:56

Hope you had a good weekend.
We have now taken the pump off ready for stripping.This is so I can satisfy my own curiosity as to whats wrong, meanwhile my son is off looking for another pump.
I took the solenoid plunger and spring out and retried but no joy.
Strange as the pump is sucking in fuel as can be seen when cranking over.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 04 Jul 2011, 11:31

having trouble finding a pump now,my local guys only have full working engines and obviously wont strip for the pump only.
Hopefully someone reading this may have one for sale please desperate,in the local area upto 70 miles radius anway.

wotwot · Post by **wotwot** » 04 Jul 2011, 12:29

Checking out various other sites suggested that it could be the shaft seal.
Someone said that its possible for air to be sucked in and stop high pressure build up.
I am not getting leaks anywhere the pump was dusty dry no weeping anywhere.
Could this seal still be at fault or would i have diesel showing up somewhere.
'EDIT' this is the site I went to;
http://www.pocuk.com/forums/viewtopic.p ... 962c53ef84