Many thanks to adamtemp64 Fault code p1586 - now sorted !!!!

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 06 Feb 2011, 15:57

Many thanks to adam for all his help this morning with his lexia.(top man) we have come to the conclusion the non starting of my berlingo is due to the egr valve and the throttle valve not having synchronised voltages. The EGR valve does not appear to be working. . we got this fault code as the main permanent one .
Fault code : P1586
Permanent fault, Rail pressure,
flowmeter, EGR valve copy sensor
supply Supply voltage too low
anyone had similar or can shed some more light on it?
Also anyone know where a EGR valve can be had for a decent price

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 06 Feb 2011, 17:12

Of all the faults posted the one that I would have thought had more to do with non starting is "rail pressure" which implies either a problem with the high pressure pump or sensor.

AS i write this I think ah! but the engine is not running so of course the pressure will be low, or had the engine been cranked first? in which case low rail pressure would be a concern, whatever reading the rail pressure when the engine is cranking to check that there is pressure would be worth doing.

While failure of the EGR valve is a concern when the engine is running can't see logically why it should prevent engine start.

Ah! new thought "rail pressure" is a locked in fault so ergo presumably there has been or is a problem with the HP pump or rail pressure sensor. low rail pressure will prevent the engine starting it equates to no fuel

cachaciero

wright · Post by **wright** » 06 Feb 2011, 19:07

first thing i would do is take the top off the fuel filter housing and put a magnate in there, if it picks up metal filings it would point to high pressure pump, if there is nothing in there i would change the fuel pressure switch, then look at the low pressure pump,

my fathers c5 used to cut out and after changing the low pressure pump, the fuel filter housing, high pressure pump twice, then the injectors, we then changed the fuel pressure switch for the craic, problem solved.

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 06 Feb 2011, 20:15

when we looked at the readings it showed a consistent fuel pressure. so we sort of ruled the pressure sensor out. the voltage on the erg valve was fluctuating without the engine being turned over. We thought this would either be 0 or 100% and that this would need to match the corresponding throttle value which was 0.
so the thoughts were that either the valve was gummed up or fubar. ??

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 06 Feb 2011, 22:18

crazylegs wrote:when we looked at the readings it showed a consistent fuel pressure. so we sort of ruled the pressure sensor out. the voltage on the erg valve was fluctuating without the engine being turned over. We thought this would either be 0 or 100% and that this would need to match the corresponding throttle value which was 0.
so the thoughts were that either the valve was gummed up or fubar. ??

A lot of engine related bits are controlled by electrical signals that are Pulse Width Modulated, i.e they switch between 12V and 0 the control is achieved by varying the on to off times. So what you were seeing may be normal for the conditions on the other hand.....

You say the fuel pressure was consistent was that consistently high or consistently low

cachaciero

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 06 Feb 2011, 22:31

I would pretty much agree with what cachaciero has said, I think it would be unlikely that the EGR valve on this engine causing a non start situation.
Did you read the live data of the fuel rail pressure sensor when cranking the engine ? I would expect to see around 120 bar minimum. when the sensors fail (or their wiring) you get a default reading of around 450 bar & it doesent fluctuate.

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 07 Feb 2011, 07:43

yes we measured it at around 335 droping to about 275 when not cranked. as the value changed then surely the sensor is working?

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 07 Feb 2011, 22:56

It should read pretty much 0 bar when not cranking, you may get a few bars of residual pressure.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 07 Feb 2011, 23:55

wheeler wrote:It should read pretty much 0 bar when not cranking, you may get a few bars of residual pressure.

Hmmm...... But what if the injectors were not working what would the residual pressure be after cranking???

cachaciero

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 08 Feb 2011, 07:32

thats what i think would the pressure drop? if the sensor was not working then it would not show any change surely ?

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 08 Feb 2011, 18:05

took the egr valve off today and it was a bit sooted up but not that bad. the motor that moves the valve is very 'notchy' is it supposed to be smooth when turned or stepped?

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 08 Feb 2011, 19:57

crazylegs wrote:thats what i think would the pressure drop? if the sensor was not working then it would not show any change surely ?

It seems to me that you need to verify the calibration of the sensor, first thing I would do is to bleed the rail to ensure that the pressure was zero and then check that the Lexia says zero the next step would be to plumb a pressure gauge into the rail and check the sensor reading against the actual pressure.

cachaciero

crazylegs · Post by **crazylegs** » 08 Feb 2011, 21:26

that would be fine except i do not have a lexia. adam kindly came 50mls to help me out. so i am left with intuition and the readings we had.
I checked out the fuel filter and no sign of any debris so am fairly confident its not that.
any one got a part number for the pressure sensor? is it the same for all hdi engines or is it specific to models?

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 08 Feb 2011, 22:13

cachaciero wrote:Hmmm...... But what if the injectors were not working what would the residual pressure be after cranking???

I dont know but i would expect the pressure to drop quite rapidly after you stop cranking the engine.

crazylegs wrote:any one got a part number for the pressure sensor? is it the same for all hdi engines or is it specific to models?

There are a few variations & some of them you can't buy without the fuel rail.

adamtemp64 · Post by **adamtemp64** » 09 Feb 2011, 16:49

As I remember it until we had the battery flatten the pressure dropped to zero after cranking stopped. And when cranking on the param page reference and meassured matched.

this is the text from screen print

06/02/2011
10:03
Permanent fault
Rail pressure, flowmeter, EGR valve copy sensor supply Supply voltage too low
Temporary fault
EGR motorised throttle unit open circuit or excessive temperature on an ECU pin
Temporary fault
EGR throttle position copy signal Short circuit to earth or value too low
Temporary fault
Coolant temperature signal Short circuit to + or open circuit
Temporary fault
Inlet air temperature sensor signal (flowmeter) Short circuit to positive or open circuit or value too high
Permanent fault
Flowmeter signal Open circuit, short circuit to positive or earth of the sensor supply or signal
Temporary fault
Turbo pressure signal Short circuit to positive or open circuit or value too high
Temporary fault
Inlet air temperature sensor signal (air inlet manifold) Short circuit to positive or open circuit or value too high

Codes p0098 p0104 p0113 p0118 p0122 p1471 p 1586 were present forget now which were the temp and perm hope that helps I do have pdf screen captures if it would help others help kev

Also did actuator tests and the first egr in the list of tests no sound then the second egr loud click to front on air pipes top left engin bay.