Xantia HDi 110 Cambelt

Post by **RichardW** » 07 Sep 2010, 12:04

So, the cambelt is well overdue on my Xantia (ahem, 107k miles and counting.....I like to live dangerously

).

What's the job like to do vs a 1.9TD? Is a tension gauge really required - any recommendations on one if so? What chance if I took it to a non-dealer outift they would use anything other than the twist test on the tension

? I'm struggling for a window to do it really - I also need to get the alternator out to change the bearing(s) which means a few days off the road, but SWMBO is not keen on being without her car whilst I do it - however, off for a week at my Parents' in early October, so that might be an opportunity to knock both on the head whilst I can manage with one car. And I can blame my Dad when it goes wrong

Don't know if my nerves can stand the DIY, but my head (and wallet!) baulks at spending nearly £300 on labour for a job I should be able to do not bother (and I would still have to take the alternator out and fix it!).

Edit: Oh, and what do you need to lock the camshaft with - it's got a vernier pulley AFIAK, but is it still an M8 bolt to lock it?

Hmmm choices, choices..... Could just keep driving it till it breaks, then I would have to do something with it - like scrap it!

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 07 Sep 2010, 15:11

Richard. I can't compare it to a TD but going through it all logically and carefully., it's not really a difficult job so much as tedious.

Cams lock with an 8mm drill bit. I found a long reach allen key to work well in the flywheel.

The 'twist method' works fine. I did mine and once aware of how to judge it properly it was fine. I erred on the side of too tight and then left it running for an hour with the covers off, my reasoning being if it was too tight it would squeal.

Whereabouts are you as I could offer some sort of guidance if you wished?

spider · Post by **spider** » 07 Sep 2010, 15:29

Just to add the main differences between this and the XUD are no automatic tensioner and the pump position does not lock either (as its just a high pressure pump, injection is controlled via the injectors themselves, linked to the ECU)

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 07 Sep 2010, 17:08

I would say the timing belt on the DW10 is slightly easier than the XUD9.
If you have done a XUD9 then it will be no problem to you.
I've done plenty of them & never used a SEEM gauge on them.
The camshaft pegs the same way but the hole is not threaded like the XUD9 & the flywheel uses the same peg.

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 07 Sep 2010, 17:10

I must do mine too!
The DM pulley needs replacing (I have a new one), so I might as well do the belt at the same time. I've had the replacement belt for well over a year, and have done plenty of cambelts before, but keep putting it off. The HDI looks easy really - it's just fear of the unknown!
Does everyone think it's really necessary to replace the idlers if they still run smoothly? They're quite a lot of money to change just for the sake of it.

Post by **RichardW** » 08 Sep 2010, 09:04

Thanks guys - I'll see what the forecast is looking like the week we are away....

Toby - thanks for the offer but I am about 450 miles north of Ringwood, so a bit far to come

I guess my only real concern is setting the tension without the aid of the spring tensioner a la XUD engines - but checking the deflection / twist of the existig belt should give a good guide. After all, what's the worst that can happen

Dunno about the pulleys dnsey - I was going to change them as they are only about £30, and I hope to keep this car at least another 50k - likewise I would do the water pump, I suppose the coolant could do with a change after 10 years as well!

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 08 Sep 2010, 15:19

RichardW wrote:...After all, what's the worst that can happen

You say that but I did have mine slip. One broken rocker (£16 to replace) was what happened

The HDi is similar to the XUD in that it uses rockers. The valves are perpendicular to the piston so if anything should go wrong more often than not the valve is pushed straight back up and the rocker breaks. Thats not to say you 100% will not bend a valve, it could still happen its just unlikely.

spider · Post by **spider** » 08 Sep 2010, 20:35

Toby_HDi wrote: The HDi is similar to the XUD in that it uses rockers. The valves are perpendicular to the piston so if anything should go wrong more often than not the valve is pushed straight back up and the rocker breaks. Thats not to say you 100% will not bend a valve, it could still happen its just unlikely.

Although I do think the HDi is probably a bit more resistant to serious damage, I've not heard of one that's had a cam in three pieces, as is quite common with a broken XUD belt.

Having said that, the belts don't break that often anyway's as you know.

Post by **RichardW** » 09 Sep 2010, 08:06

I well remember your trials Toby.....

partly what's putting me off - it if was an XUD with the auto tensioner, I'd be less reticent!

There is a difference between the XUD9 and the HDI - the XUD9 has direct valve actuation from the cam whereas the HDi has offset drive via rockers and hydraulic tappets. This means the broken belt in XUD drives the valves straight through the cam, breaking it and the bearing caps. On an HDi the weak point is the rockers which break without bending valves or the shaft or the bearing caps. I suspect the design was to get hydraulic tappets, rather than make a 'safe' design in the event of cam belt breakage. The 2.0 HDi belt drive is pretty well engineered and rarely seems to give trouble even with 100k change intervals (unlike those rubbishy VAG ones that needed changing at 36k!)

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 09 Sep 2010, 08:10

RichardW wrote:I well remember your trials Toby..... partly what's putting me off - it if was an XUD with the auto tensioner, I'd be less reticent!

There is a difference between the XUD9 and the HDI - the XUD9 has direct valve actuation from the cam whereas the HDi has offset drive via rockers and hydraulic tappets. This means the broken belt in XUD drives the valves straight through the cam, breaking it and the bearing caps. On an HDi the weak point is the rockers which break without bending valves or the shaft or the bearing caps. I suspect the design was to get hydraulic tappets, rather than make a 'safe' design in the event of cam belt breakage. The 2.0 HDi belt drive is pretty well engineered and rarely seems to give trouble even with 100k change intervals (unlike those rubbishy VAG ones that needed changing at 36k!)

You took the words right out of my mouth...

Designed especially for people who cannot be bothered to follow matenance procedures and dont bother getting belts done! Its followed the same idea as the 2.1 XUD in the XM and later Xantias, as the HDi replaced the 2.1, a perfect design, so theres no need to get the head off to replace bent valves, there sould never be any..

Paul

Post by **RichardW** » 10 Oct 2010, 21:12

As the car is in pieces for the alternator repair, I was going to tackle the cambelt and waterpump at the same time.....but whaaat???? Bottled out of it.... I can just about feel the top cover bolt at the back, but how do you undo it - the solenoids are right in the way. It looks like the covers need to come off to get engine mount off, but there's a bolt in the top cover that is right under the back of the engine mount. How do you get it out? Or can you undo the mount and thread it out? Do you need to remove the back part of the mount that is bolted to the inner wing (which also looks like a mare)?

I tried to take the bolts out of the front cover to have a look at the belt, but found that 2 of them are loctitied in FFS!! What is all that about? I think these bolts would be easier to get out with the crank pulley out of the way TBH.

Hopefully I can manage an hour or so a few evenings this week, and then find by Friday that the new belt is on, and just the covers to refit. At least if I drain the cooling system, I will be able to take to top hose off to ease the passage of the rebuilt alternator back in!

Post by **DHallworth** » 11 Oct 2010, 12:47

I get on really well with the guys at our local Peugeot dealership and have got one of the mechanics coming out to do the timing belt on our latest Xantia HDi 110.

I'll see if I've got time to hang around and watch him work and get back to you.

Where abouts are you? Don't know if it's of interest but he's only charging me £100 if I supply the parts. Didn't think that seemed to bad when I don't have the time and don't feel comfortable tensioning the belt after I've fitted it.

The biggest fear I've got of working on a car is the tensioning of the timing belts as it can be catastrophic if I got it wrong. The belt on my V6 XM needs doing, quotes to do it are scary and I can't bring myself to touch it!

David.

Post by **RichardW** » 17 Oct 2010, 13:58

Cheers David - not that far from you in Lanark, so it's a possibility. It's the tensioning bit that worries me I guess - get it wrong and it will time for some new rockers....

Been looking at it further whilst progressing the alternator repair. I took off the 2 electrovalves, which allows reasonable access to the torsion link on the engine mount, which I reckon if removed will make access to the top cover not too bad. I don't have the necessary 16mm spanner or socket yet! The bolt in the top cover down the back of the engine is some sort of sick joke though! It makes the TD ones 'look' easy. I can just get a finger on it, but I reckon that with the engine mount out of the way it will be possible to hold a ratchet spanner on the bolt with left hand round the back of the cover, whilst ratcheting the spanner over the top with the right hand. Haven't got one of those either yet....tool buying coming up!

Post by **DHallworth** » 17 Oct 2010, 22:54

I had mine done this morning with the water pump.

The timing is spot on but there's an unusual whirring noise that comes from it when you let the revs off.

When holding a screw driver to it and listening to the handle it looks like it's coming from the high pressure fuel pump.

Was relieved it was being done as old belt had a few nasty cracks in it.

David.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Oct 2010, 10:10

David,

Whining is SURE the Cam belt has been fitted TO TIGHT! It mat wear the front seal on the pump!!

I had a HDi 110bhp in which had a belt kit fitted and made an awfull whining noise.. I replaced the belt onceI found out who locally had done it previously, and after all fitting the whining had gone, I found the belt too tight..

Id get a second opinion on the tightness... not good being too tight!!

Paul