Xantia strut top mount failure question

JohnW · Post by **JohnW** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:21

Greetings from Western Australia,

We're seeing a few (too many) Xantia strut mount failures - rubber perishes or debonds and strut punches up into the bonnet. This is not a corrosion of the mounting for the mount, but of the bonded rubber component within the mount.

Does anybody know, definitively, whether the replacement mounts have been modified so that the failure cannot occur? I have a 1995 Xantia 2.0 Si, with non-hydractive suspension, not that this makes any difference to the issue.

All I really know is that the spare part number has changed twice since my car was made, which is encouraging but does not answer the question. Obviously I am planning to change the mounts before they fail, the rubber being 12 years old now.

Much obliged.

John W.

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:33

I fitted new ones to my Xantia, and the answer in a word is no. The new ones were the same as the originals.

JohnW · Post by **JohnW** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:34

LeeDJC wrote:I fitted new ones to my Xantia, and the answer in a word is no. The new ones were the same as the originals.

Thanks for the quick reply Lee. Pity!

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:39

It is a shame, but ours fail due to corrosion to the metal collar due to the salt etc on the roads, so when new ones are fitted this can be protected against, by way of hammerite or waxoyl etc. But unfortunately theres nothing you can do with regard to the rubber perishing

JohnW · Post by **JohnW** » 13 Jun 2007, 11:52

LeeDJC wrote:It is a shame, but ours fail due to corrosion to the metal collar due to the salt etc on the roads, so when new ones are fitted this can be protected against, by way of hammerite or waxoyl etc. But unfortunately theres nothing you can do with regard to the rubber perishing

That's more or less true. Mine looks fine at present, and those who know more say you can see it starting to fail by looking behind the gaiter....... Given the age of the cars, most are not with their original owners, so how much each failure has been run with flat spheres, over stressing the rubber, for example, is hard to tell. I suspect abuse is a significant cause but who knows. Hence my replacement action, in parallel with not abusing the car and keeping the spheres up of course.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 13 Jun 2007, 18:55

i would not put anything like waxoil on the strut tops as this will cause the bonded rubber the deteriate quiker,as the metal part/s which fail are coverd in the bonded rubber
regards malcolm

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 19:39

Not all of the strut top is covered with rubber. The piece that sits up against the inner arch has no rubber on it at all. This is why they fail due to metal corrosion, the water/salt gets in there and stays there. It then eats away at the lightly zinc coated metal.

It would be OK if the whole thing was encased, or at least better, but unfortunately it's not. And this includes the new ones fron citroen.

To help prevent the water from entering the gap between the inner arch and strut top, I applied liberal amounts of waxoyl which then "squeezed" out when the strut top was tightened, and filled any air gaps. Any excess was wiped off. This should stop, or at least drastically reduce any corrosion. Particularly if the strut top is undone from the inner wing every 12 months, cleaned and another protective coating of waxoyl "sandwiched" between it and the inner wing.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 13 Jun 2007, 21:51

Just out of curiosity, do the struts make any noises before they go POP?
By that I mean is there any rattling, rumbling or other strange noises?

Alan S

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 22:29

It's not happened to me, but some people do describe some strange noises coming from the strut tops before they go.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 13 Jun 2007, 22:38

Honestly I really think there are no pointers of warning - except what you find during a visual inspection.

The more I read about this problem, the more I find Shane's approach using a homemade steel safety strap a very good idea.
It may certainly be a very sensible topic for discussion at the next Citroen summit you have locally down there under.

I dont see any reason why Shane's approach could not be refined even further. Maybe you guys could come up with a ready made machine shop fabricated part that looks nice and fits easy - simply by undoing the strut top retaining nuts.

Like the swedish guy who fabricated the XM strut top repair parts.

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 22:43

Perhaps if these were fitted in conjunction with new strut tops, it would reduce the stress on them, and they would go on forever!

Perhaps you could source the strut tops yourself, and get the strengthening part fabricated professionally, and sell the two together as a kit. I'd imagine this would go down a storm down there!

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 13 Jun 2007, 22:55

LeeDJC wrote:Perhaps if these were fitted in conjunction with new strut tops, it would reduce the stress on them, and they would go on forever!

Perhaps you could source the strut tops yourself, and get the strengthening part fabricated professionally, and sell the two together as a kit. I'd imagine this would go down a storm down there!

Have just placed this suggestion on aussiefrogs so I'll keep you informed of any response towards getting something improvised.

Alan S

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 13 Jun 2007, 22:57

Sweet

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 13 Jun 2007, 23:21

You have to watch the total range of movement and articulation of the
head of the strut top when the car is turned full lock to lock to appreciate
the work te rubber cone is going through.

I still agree with Shane's idea of the restraining bracket over the top in a
loop to prevent vertical movement when it does fail although that will have
to have enough 'slack' to stop it catching/rubbing on the retaining bracket.
It doesn't lick the problem of failure really but it's an effective insurance to
save the bonnet at least!

The Swedish guys' bracket that mounts over the top of the Xm strut is a
bit weird for me - I may be wrong here and no doubt I am, but it appears
to lock totally rigid the head in one position preventing flex of the rubber
cone. Is this exactly an ideal situation!! The compromised geometry of the
pivot motion of the McStrut relies on the fudge of the top mounting to
allow some straightening of the road wheel!!

No centre point steering geometry here!!

As far as a solution, the only clear way for us blighted with corrosion
issues is to prolong the strut top life by folowing advice well covered by
Lee's comments earlier along with damned good spheres and a healthy
hydraulic system/LHM.

The rubber failing is a whole different ball game which I can see no
immediate answer/solution to - if the rubber isn't up to operating in
the temperature range it's found itself in, clearly Citroen havn't delivered
a design/product that is fit for purpose. I keep coming back to the thought
that subsidised replacements are necessary on a rolled out recall
arrangement - certainly the quantities aren't going to be the level found
in Europe so it'll not break the Bank...

Still, it's not going to happen, is it!?

Andrew

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 13 Jun 2007, 23:23

JohnW wrote: That's more or less true. Mine looks fine at present, and those who know more say you can see it starting to fail by looking behind the gaiter....... Given the age of the cars, most are not with their original owners, so how much each failure has been run with flat spheres, over stressing the rubber, for example, is hard to tell.

This brings up something I have thought about - although I don't have any hard figures, it seems like Hydractive 2 models are suffering from premature failure of the rubber blocks - and I think its due to the "hard mode" that the car enters when cornering etc... the suspension is so stiff in this mode that it must put a lot more stress on the rubber blocks than a standard Xantia ??

My HA2 Xantia was 8 years old when I got it and one of the strut tops was alarmingly close to failure - the "round" rubber ring the gaters attach to was completely distorted on one of them, and there was very obvious cracking at the flexing points.

It wasn't a case of running them with flat spheres as all 3 suspension spheres on the front of my Xantia are the long life multilayer diaphram type - and they would have still had plenty of pressure in them at 8 years old.

On the other hand our other two Xantia's both non-Hydractive are now 13 and 14 years old respectively and the strut tops don't show any alarming signs of failure....

Regards,
Simon