More fun with the BX

Post by **Jon** » 25 Oct 2004, 16:06

Did the clutch on Saturday, last BX TD clutch change I did was 9 years ago, and I hope that the next one is 10 years away at least.
Here's a couple of pics of the old clutch, (the original one as it turns out, Valeo 1992!) and the BX in dismantled state.

The joy of the dripping LHM and antifreeze on my head and the filthyness of everything is a great way to spend a rainy Saturday!
Got the thing all back together by about 4pm luckily, and bled coolant and hydraulics. New clutch is lovely and light, it was well worth doing. [:)]
Parts replaced in the course of this job were the complete clutch (obviously!), diff seals, input shaft seal, g/box oil, and RH driveshaft (old one had a noisy CV joint).

oilyspanner · Post by **oilyspanner** » 25 Oct 2004, 20:37

If you had waited a few weeks you could have rolled in snow whilst changing it;)
Stewart

DLM · Post by **DLM** » 25 Oct 2004, 21:57

Well done, that man! How many hours did it take overall, Jon? I'm a little anxious about my BX TD clutch pedal which seems to be heading skywards.

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 25 Oct 2004, 22:00

Hmmm nice topic to start, BX TD clutch, how much?
Is there any option for a bigger clutch that can take a higher torque, like a HDi clutch maybe?
Anythoughts greatky appreciated!

Post by **Jon** » 25 Oct 2004, 22:18

It took about 7 hours, and I had help for some of that time. Plus the time taken after that to clean tools, workshop floor etc etc! Also, I had access to all kinds of nice things such as 2 post ramp, engine cross beam support and a hydraulic gearbox stand. I would think, doing it on axle stands with a couple of trolley jacks on your own I would allow a weekend. As ever when you do these jobs, there are snags.You have to remove the gearbox mount support pin so that you can get enough clearance to wiggle the box out. Citroen, in their infinate wisdom, loctite this bolt in, and do it up to FT with some factory tool unknown to the rest of mankind. Options for undoing it are in the Stilsons/big molegrips area. When even these methods failed, had to use the "hot spanner" on the gearbox casing to melt out the loctite to get the thing undone.
AS for "upgrading" the clutch, I can't really think what else would fit, certainly HDI 110 wouldn't because of the hydraulic slave arrangement. I think that the BX TD clutch plate is 230mm so it could be a question of looking through the Valeo cat to see what else in the Cit/Peu range uses that size of clutch?

VisaGTi16v · Post by **VisaGTi16v** » 25 Oct 2004, 22:43

"and do it up to FT with some factory tool unknown to the rest of mankind" lol!
I helped out at the local garage which did my zx 16v clutch as I know the bloke. What a joke of a job that was, ended up lowering the front subframe and all sorts. Never again!

bernie · Post by **bernie** » 25 Oct 2004, 23:36

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jon

You have to remove the gearbox mount support pin so that you can get enough clearance to wiggle the box out. Citroen, in their infinate wisdom, loctite this bolt in, and do it up to FT with some factory tool unknown to the rest of mankind. Options for undoing it are in the Stilsons/big molegrips area. When even these methods failed, had to use the "hot spanner" on the gearbox casing to melt out the loctite to get the thing undone.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
When I did the clutch on my brother's BX GTI, I cut the stud off c/o hacksaw which allows a spanner to fit,then bought a replacement about £4 if I remember correctly[:)]

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 26 Oct 2004, 06:07

Hi Guys,
I've never done a clutch before (in any car) without pulling the lot.
Wouldn't it be enormously easier just to whip the whole engine & gearbox out, as opposed to rolling around in the snow underneath attempting to retreive the gearbox given the extreme space restraints.
Apparantly you can also whip the gearbox out of a DS without removing the motor, but I've never tried with one of them either (it's so much easier just to whip the whole lot out [:D] --The frustration saved, more than makes up for any extra time taken !!).
seeya,
Shane L.

Post by **Jon** » 26 Oct 2004, 15:16

Shane
Its definately quicker to do the clutch by "just" removing the gearbox on the BX. In fact, on say a BX16 without power steering, its a quick job. However on TD's and 16v's theres more to get out of the way, such as the HP pump, HP line from the pump to the flow valve, plus coolant tank and pipes. On anything with PAS you have to remove the accumulator so that the flow valve and pressure reg can be unbolted from the bellhousing. Naturally, all of the above would apply if the box was being removed with the engine too.
If you go down the "box off only" road on the TD/16v, the best way to get clearance is to remove the gearbox support stud, and instead of taking out the lower speedo cable (silly rubber pin holds it in), leave the cable in, undo cable where it joins at the bulkhead, then undo the diff housing - 3 x 13mm bolts (the bit where the speedo drive is). Not only does this avoid lower speedo cable refitting hassles, it gives loads more clearance when the box is being wiggled out.

vanny · Post by **vanny** » 26 Oct 2004, 22:43

"and instead of taking out the lower speedo cable (silly rubber pin holds it in), "
the trick i use is to spray the rubber with WD40, let it soak and stick it back in till the tip apears through the other side, then dig your nails into it and pull. I dotn find tham hard or even fidly to do! But disconnecting higher up has to be easier!
I didnt realise the diff was so easy to remove! My usal is to only take out the short shaft, the long side falls out when you slide the box out. Having the box dangling on a rope makes it a bit easier to manouver into place, get it about right then climb underneath and you have four limbs to wiggle it into place. This is more applied to 'modern' cars such as the Focus, but the BX can be done really easy from above. There is a nack to getting it lined up just right though!
The solution to the FD is to remove it

or simply move it to the scuttle, not as amazingly difficult as it sounds! no special pipes required, just get them off another BX

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 27 Oct 2004, 02:44

FWIW, I've found the best way of sliding any rubber grummets through firewalls or rubber fiitings into things they seem they will never fit that the use of a silicone release spray works wonders. The advantage seemingly being that once pressed into position, the spray seems to dissipate and the rubber returns to normal. WD I always worry about due to its long term prospects of causing the rubber to perish; it's just a personal thing perhaps.
On another note.
Jon,
Given the number of postings there's been over time on this clutch removal & refit job, is there any chance that we can archive this one in one of our clues & tips forums o allow easy access and referral in the future? I think it has been one of the best we've ever had on the subject by combining the experiences of those concerned.
I can still remember Vanny doing his clutch job and all the associated dramas followed by him sorting them out in a very tradesmanlike way and doing a posting that was around for a while but then seemed to get lost.
I thought if we nailed our resources here that it's been revisited, it could be a good one for the future.
Alan S

ghostrider · Post by **ghostrider** » 27 Oct 2004, 04:03

If you are doing it off axle stands, an engine hoist definitely helps when putting it back, I've tried jacks and all sorts over the years and always worried about damaging either the clutch or gearbox shaft by not getting it at the right angle, on a hoist you can concentrate on lining it up rather than having to support the weight as well. My local hire shop costs me about ?25 for a day. BTW Jon was it just the diaphragm fingers worn away?
Pete
PS Vanny do you still want those CX Variomatic steering bits? I have got to have a clear out of surplus stuff soon
________
Subaru r-2 history

Post by **Jon** » 27 Oct 2004, 18:50

I've actually written up the job (the way I did it) and put it here http://www.andyspares.com/discussionfor ... IC_ID=9869
Pete, I changed the clutch because it was very heavy (fingers bending) and also there was slight slip going up hills in 5th, original had done 114,000 miles but car has towbar!!!!!

jonathan_dyane · Post by **jonathan_dyane** » 30 Oct 2004, 04:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Jon

Got the thing all back together by about 4pm luckily, and bled coolant and hydraulics. New clutch is lovely and light, it was well worth doing. [:)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Nice job Jon. One question though. Like mine, does your BX have the later Xantia-type plastic diesel filter mounted on the thermostat housing?
This is the first BX I have played with with this set-up, and the only bleed screw for the coolant I can find is on the rad. Now the weather is getting colder, thoughts move to fresh anti-freeze, so knowing the setup would be advantageous...
The thermostat housing seems to have *no* bleedscrews, and, unlike Peugeots I have seen with the same engine, the small pipe from the thermostat housing has no integral bleed screw.
Where are the screws on your car, and if there aren't any how did you bleed it!
Cheers,

prm · Post by **prm** » 30 Oct 2004, 04:53

Jonathan
Working on the principle your TZD is the same as a 90
You should find two bleed/vent screws on the thermostat housing. Possibly 5mm brass Allen bolts.
One directly above main outlet hose and the other in the upper housing between cold start device and temperature sensors.
Good advice for bleeding the system with a header bottle have been posted under Hints and Tips
Peter