New Xantia, diesel newbie, many questions..

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 24 Sep 2004, 23:58

After a year of fannying about with Sierras, following the loss of my beloved 2.0i Xantia, I've finally got another! This time, a virtually new looking 1.9TD, 1997, with 138,000 on the clock.
I've only driven with petrol before now, so I'm a little wary of what to expect and not too clued up on how this thing works and what role the ECU plays. Mostly, it seems to run well to me, MPG is better at around 40, although I'm under the impression I should be getting a little more?
There's some worry points though. It's usually rather hard to start, whether hot or cold, taking anything from near instant start to usually many seconds. When cold, it's fond of blowing blue smoke for a while, and does consume what seems to be a little too much oil. I think this is common for an engine this age/milage, but I don't know the severity of it. There looked to be some seepage from the bottom of two injectors (although the bleed off pipes were saturated too, so I've replaced two of those for now in the hope that it's not actually the injectors that were leaking.) There's no smoke at all when running warm, and what to me sounds like a very slight clatter at low revs. Turbo kicks in around 2500 revs with a pleasing whistle and new burst of power. Mmm

With the (newly recharged) aircon on, there's a very notable pull on the engine, it feels harder to pull away and up to speed. Again not having had the luxary of aircon, I don't know if this is to be expected? I've even managed to stall it a couple of times without aircon on, which surprised me. Top speed is about 100, is this normal, or does it sound like I'm lacking in power for some reason?
Today, I've discovered a breather hose from the top of the engine to what appears to be somewhere in the bottom of the fuel filter has a huge crack in it, the rubber gone brittle. Would a leak here affect performance in any way?
From the second injector from the cambelt-side of the engine, there's a pair of wires coming off it (that seem to have been severed at some point and badly soldered back together). What are they for?
Finally, really silly question time! I've been told diesel is extremely toxic, as little as 2ml ingested fatal. Is there any truth to this? It's made be kind of paranoid about working on the engine

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 25 Sep 2004, 00:24

Have you any records on how old the glowplugs are ?
Usually they are on their last after some 60Kmiles.
They have huge influence on a diesel starting capability.
Except for the akward hidden plug under/behind the diesel rotopump, then replacing the glowplugs compares to DIY work replacing spark plugs.
The brittle hose you found could very well be (part of) the problem with the blue (oil) smoke. Check the rest of the oil/fume hosing as one part usually tells the condition of the rest ...[B)]
I'd agree the mileage is on the low side. Unless you have a heavy foot enjoying the turbo kick, you should get closer to the 50mpg figure.
But you must remember that the Xantia is in fact a rather heavy car for the 1.9TD engine.

andylal · Post by **andylal** » 25 Sep 2004, 00:37

Get your spanners out!
I would'nt recomend drinking diesel, but after many a soaking in it fitting coach fuel filters i dont think it is fatal, makes you stink a bit though.

Simon Canfer · Post by **Simon Canfer** » 25 Sep 2004, 01:08

Sounds like you need 3 new glowplugs to me! Plenty of advice about replacement here if you search for it - just don't buy anything other than main brands. Could be glowplug relay though so some work with a multimeter is required.
Driving the older diesels economically takes practise, use just enough right foot to get the job done- and keep those revs below 3000, would be my advice. Mind, you won't get miracles as the XUD is a rather ancient engine. I get about 48mpg with that engine in the lighter ZX.
Most chemicals are toxic if you don't treat them with respect!
Simon

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 25 Sep 2004, 01:09

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
Except for the akward hidden plug under/behind the diesel rotopump, then replacing the glowplugs compares to DIY work replacing spark plugs.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It did look very intimidating to work on, with various air pipes and things in the way that don't all appear to easilly detach. I presume the deisel pump would need to come out for that plug, that does scare me.
Will shot plugs affect the startup time when hot? I thought the plugs only glow when the engines cold, but it's pretty much just as hard starting hot. Do they glow only when the light is on the dash, or is that to indicate they're heating up? If so how long do they stay on for, as I think they're only for starting?

bxbodger · Post by **bxbodger** » 25 Sep 2004, 01:45

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">diesel is extremely toxic<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
It most certainly is if you ingest it or get it into the bloodstream-does anyone remember the story in the news a few years ago about a mechanic who died after swallowing some while trying to siphon a tank??[xx(][xx(]

davethewheel · Post by **davethewheel** » 25 Sep 2004, 02:46

i've changed all the glow plugs on a zx before and if they are the same which i think they are you do not need to remove the pump, it's just awkward to get at and be careful not to cross thread the new one.
also i would recommend fitting original equipment ones like beru or like me you may find you have to fit them twice as my car burnt the end of the cheapo's in a few thousand miles.

Gaskin · Post by **Gaskin** » 25 Sep 2004, 03:49

Having just done my ZX glowplugs I agree totally with Davethewheel's comments and experiences of cheap plugs. My local GSF had Beru plugs at £4.95 rather than the £6.50 listed - bargain! But they don't come with the nuts that hold the supply wire on so don't lose them when you take the old ones out. Access to them can be a real pain, but removing/shifting various hoses, jubilee clips etc does help. A selection of lots of different shaped spanners helps also. I used at least 3 different combination ring spanners with different degrees of reach and bends. The plugs are 12mm and the supply nuts 8mm.
I also have a Xantia TD estate with AC. When you switch it on you get a definite jolt as the clutch kicks in, and once running it saps power noticably resulting in poorer acceleration. I think the 1.9 TD is a bit on the low powered side for the estate and compared to my ZX TD estate with virtually the same engine you really have to use the lead boot to get it moving! But not unexpected given its size.
I don't know about the top speed, but French autoroutes at 85-90 are a joy. And given the self-levelling suspension, you don't get pulled over by les Gendarmes or customs for driving around on the bump stops and your nose in the air with a boot full of plonk. 'Nothing to Declare....'
Cheers
Duncan

np · Post by np » 25 Sep 2004, 04:15

When i switch my a/con on,it does sap a bit of power,even more so when towing.You also feel the a/c "kick" in when switching on.
I get an average of 42 mpg from a mix of motorway & town driving to work each day,30m round trip.I do have a bit of a lead foot.Fuel economy has stayed the same even though i`ve had mine boosted.
I`ve had 110mph flat out from mine(private road of course!)
Is the pipe the one from the cam/rocker cover that goes to the bottom of the oil filler?If so,i had the same problem.Cost about £4.00 for the pipe & an hour to fit.A bit of a pain in the backside to fit it on the bottom of the filler.
When changed the glow plugs on mine,it took about 1/2 an hour to do the 3 easy ones,& about an hour to do the 4th one.I just disconected the pipes etc from fuel pump to make access a bit better.After using a selection of spanners etc,& a few bleeding knuckles i managed to do it.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 25 Sep 2004, 11:44

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gaskin

When you switch it on you get a definite jolt as the clutch kicks in, and once running it saps power noticably resulting in poorer acceleration.
Mine doesn't! When I switch on a/c there's just no change. Even when switched on at tick over, there's no reduction in revs, as my previous BX did. I get worried sometimes that there's something wrong with it, although when we towed down to Spain during the summer, it quickly dropped the temperature from 32C to 22C.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

uhn113x · Post by **uhn113x** » 25 Sep 2004, 13:54

I've only driven with petrol before now, so I'm a little wary of what to expect and not too clued up on how this thing works and what role the ECU plays. Mostly, it seems to run well to me, MPG is better at around 40, although I'm under the impression I should be getting a little more?
Depends on how you drive it - the biggest variable.
There's some worry points though. It's usually rather hard to start, whether hot or cold, taking anything from near instant start to usually many seconds. When cold, it's fond of blowing blue smoke for a while, and does consume what seems to be a little too much oil.
Probably just glow plugs (cold) maybe air in fuel lines (hot and cold), see below.
I think this is common for an engine this age/milage, but I don't know the severity of it.
It is barely run-in, for an XUD!
There looked to be some seepage from the bottom of two injectors (although the bleed off pipes were saturated too, so I've replaced two of those for now in the hope that it's not actually the injectors that were leaking.)
Injectors rarely leak, but leakoff pipes can allow air in.
There's no smoke at all when running warm, and what to me sounds like a very slight clatter at low revs.
Listen to belt tensioner, alternator, HP pump with a stethoscope (long screwdriver in ear)
I've even managed to stall it a couple of times without aircon on, which surprised me.
An achievement!
Top speed is about 100, is this normal, or does it sound like I'm lacking in power for some reason?
What use is any more, apart from marketing?
Today, I've discovered a breather hose from the top of the engine to what appears to be somewhere in the bottom of the fuel filter has a huge crack in it, the rubber gone brittle. Would a leak here affect performance in any way?
Just replace it and any other suspect hoses
From the second injector from the cambelt-side of the engine, there's a pair of wires coming off it (that seem to have been severed at some point and badly soldered back together). What are they for?
Finally, really silly question time! I've been told diesel is extremely toxic, as little as 2ml ingested fatal. Is there any truth to this? It's made be kind of paranoid about working on the engine

Don't drink diesel, not even with orange juice! Petrol is toxic as well.

ItDontGo · Post by **ItDontGo** » 25 Sep 2004, 14:41

Your comments that it is difficult to change the 4th glow plug are interesting. If it was mine I would just change three of them. Unless you live in the Antartic it will still start with three so what's the problem?
By the way would anybody like to buy my BX. It has three new spark plugs (the fourth one by the alarm is difficult to get out).

D.Slatford · Post by **D.Slatford** » 25 Sep 2004, 15:15

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It is barely run-in, for an XUD!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Reassuring

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Top speed is about 100, is this normal, or does it sound like I'm lacking in power for some reason?
What use is any more, apart from marketing?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh, I wouldn't even if I could (instant ban? nothankyou!), but was simply curious. Diesel's a new experience, so hard to guage what's to be expected.
<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Don't drink diesel, not even with orange juice! Petrol is toxic as well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well, no, I wasn't about to start slurping it with my cornflakes

But I am concerned about anything seeping into cuts and sore spots on fingers, if it's that toxic compared to petrol/regular oils, or whether it's simply my paranoia.
--
Dan, also in West Yorkshire, sunny (not) Wakefield!

Post by **martyhopkirk** » 25 Sep 2004, 15:53

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by np

When i switch my a/con on,it does sap a bit of power,even more so when towing.You also feel the a/c "kick" in when switching on.
I get an average of 42 mpg from a mix of motorway & town driving to work each day,30m round trip.I do have a bit of a lead foot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Cant say i really notice my AC kick in when i switch it on, but i do notice a reduction in fuel economy - more so when towing when ona recent trip using the AC for some 150 miles my fuel consumption dropped to a very disappointing 39 mpg (HDi)

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 25 Sep 2004, 17:27

Your TD shouldn't really smoke at all even when starting if all is well. Glow plugs have an important role in reducing smoking and on your xantia they will stay on for a while after the engine starts.
If you have a bosch pump (and if the cambelt end glowplug really is difficult to remove you probably have) they apparently are prone to getting air in the fuel if the leakoff pipes leak. This can manifest as poor starting or even smoke. What happens is that the engine misses and the unburnt fuel is then discharged into the exhaust and appears as smoke.
I'm surprised that you can hear the tubo. This suggests that there may be an air leak which would of course affect the performance.
jeremy