Xantia heater not working cold air flaps/blower

[Stickyfinger]

Fernox F3 has arrived.............let the Experiment commence

.....the plan:

Take a sample of the plain water that comes out...remember it has a Wynns agent already....(this stuff is just a mild detergent with anti foam I think)

Refill and add Fernox (1/4 bottle)....run the car, keep heat in it for a hour

Drain and take a sample

Refill and and another 1/4 bottle of F3

Leave that in for a week....repeat sample etc, then flush 3 times and refill with coolant/a-freeze
~
Check under the dash/carpet again for leaks


Application

A single dose of Fernox Cleaner F3 265ml is sufficient to clean an average domestic heating system of 100 litres, up to 12 radiators, or 190 sqm of underfloor heating. Additional / repeat applications of Cleaner F3 may be necessary for larger systems, or if systems are heavily sludged. Alternatively, Power Cleaner F8 may be used for heavily sludged systems.

First drain and refill the entire system with plain water. For optimum results the entire system, including drop feed radiators where fitted, should be completely drainable. Preferably, full bore gate valves with hose connectors should be provided temporarily for this purpose. Motorised and thermostatically controlled valves must be set so that no part of the system is closed off during cleansing, or rinsing. Discharges must be made to the foul drain and not the surface water drain. For open vented systems add Cleaner F3 via the header tank. For sealed systems add via a suitable dosing point, or use Fernox Cleaner F3 Express 400ml.

Fernox Cleaner F3 can also be used in conjunction with a powerflushing unit. In this case, please refer to the unit manufacturer’s instructions. When pre-commission cleansing new systems, Fernox Cleaner F3 should be circulated for a minimum of one hour at normal operating temperature. For cleaning existing systems, sludge and debris should be dispersed also within one hour at normal operating temperatures. However, to remove hardened iron oxides and limescale, the cleaning time can be extended to up to one week under the normal heating cycle. If a radiator still has a cold spot after one hour, increase the flow through the radiator by closing the valves on the other radiators.

[wurlycorner]

Good luck!

[Stickyfinger]

So it begins.....The Initial untreated sample....this is plain tap water which was put in 4 days ago after flushing / after Wynns "Radiator Cleaner" treatment that had been in the system for 2 days................it really does look like morning p**s

The FERNOX F3 has been poured in, I used 250ml of F3.
I will run the car up to temp 4 times daily with one 20 min drive checking the heater temperature and taking 100ml samples from a hot expansion tank every 24 hours for a week then I will do a coolant dump.

Will be interesting to see how this works............

[Stickyfinger]

24hrs later...............

Sample No2................ sample 2 is darker a slightly more cloudy.

Did I notice a "slight" increase in temp when I put on full fan for the first time ??...not sure.
It still goes lukewarm after being on full blow for about 30 secs. Supply pipe and flow out to the matrix both reasonably hot.

[Stickyfinger]

Day 3...............no change in heater temp
Not a lot seems to be happening at the moment.....I expected more TBH.

Note, the colour is the same/white container/flash is messing with it.

[Stickyfinger]

Day 4....no change in heater output yet. The water does seem to be getting more "cloudy"

[myglaren]

Might be worth flushing with just water and get rid of the cloudiness before continuing with Fernox.

Have you considered the Forte cooling system products? They seem to be well regarded.

[Stickyfinger]

I have flushed with water before I added the Fernox.

I did, but decided to use Fernox as a test.... It is a highly respected system used for years in heating systems and is the industry standard, I see no benefit of a Forte product (or other car product) over Fernox. Part of the treatment is to leave it in for a week if needed.

Sadly, with the design of the heater matrix being "brop loops" blockage with heavy particulate which cannot be dissolved may be the problem.
Plan B will be to remove the heater pipes and try to get some large increase in flow into/out of the matrix.. I am trying to avoid disconnection at all costs as the connectors & plastics will be old and brittle.

[Stickyfinger]

Day 5.....no change in heat output of the interior heater.

[Stickyfinger]

Fernox now out....hahahaha, found the matrix bleeder cap under some dropped sound mat on the bulkhead

.....SOME minor improvement in heat out put but NOT correct by a wide margin.

LAST chance saloon now is a back flush direct to the matrix itself.............so which pipe/hose is it ?

This is looking down the back of the engine on its left side.....red one going into the block, green one going forward to under the ?? fuel filter ??

[RichardW]

I'd say red is the feed - hot water coming off the head; and green is the return - cold water flowing back into the water pump suction side.

[Stickyfinger]

OK....this is it now......

I back flushed twice with a hose (but I have low pressure at the garage)
I connected an AirLine to the out flow hose and blew/forced the residual water head in the matrix back through it a good few times. I was gentle !

Reconnected all hoses, refilled with water and ran it up to temp

Turned on fan, LOTS more heat but that then tailed off after 30 odd seconds...this reduces to luke warm (but warmer than before)

I conclude the Matrix "U Drop" pipes are silted up from its long lay-up/this had "hardened" and the heat I get is from the top cross pipe (all be it that is now very clear thus more instant heat) heat soaking the Matrix. The "U-Drop" pipes if blocked get no flow unlike a full flow radiator such as an oil cooler.

Matrix swap (or ultrasonic clean) will be needed, this will need it to be removed which will WAIT till the summer whilst I have the ACTIVA on the road.
The car at the moment has a full fill of Prestone Coolant

[CitroJim]

That'll be an adventure Alasdair I'll get myself mentally prepared for that task...

It might be easier to ditch the front passenger seat and install a woodburner in its place with a chimney out through the roof

[Stickyfinger]

Looking at images on-line......it seems the Matrix design is cross-tubes (C) NOT drop-tubes (U).........

ONE little niggle remains....... There is still good flow/volume of water through the matrix which surprises me a bit, I would of thought blockages in the cross pipes would have reduced that..

[peter306]

Hello Alasdair,
2 things, have you felt the heater hoses going into the bulkhead after the car is warmed up.
Bad news, that post you got the picture from, check the picture before that one, shows the matrix in place and it looks like the tubes drop.

Peter