E-C4

[osx]

I've seen used EC4's going for a similar price compared to petrol EC4's. The main differentiating factor between the EC4 and other similar EVs is the suspension. I think for 10-15k it is a very good second car.

[Gibbo2286]

Make sure you can live with the pretty abysmal range!

It's a 40 mile max return commute so I am sure it will be ok from that end.

Could have done that comfortably in my ten year old Renault Zoe my 2020 one has a range claimed at 245 miles.

[GiveMeABreak]

So claimed mileage (bull***t mileage) = 245
Less 20% as they only recommend you don't charge to no more than 80% for battery health, so that's 196 remaining range.

Then conversely, don't let the battery fall below 20%, so another 20% off the range leaving 147 miles if you follow the recommendations....

The EV data shows for the Zoe 190 range so that's in line with the above, but excludes the don't go below 20% part I mentioned.

There's been a recent success story from a bloke with an Audi E-Tron, who managed to get shot of it back to the dealership who gave him bull range figures (the vehicle was used), as the bloke was getting nowhere near the range he was sold on. He won from the financial ombudsman and was able to have the vehicle returned and got compensation. They think this could start a precedent.


... just found the article:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... t-won.html

[NewcastleFalcon]

The EC-4 is a very nice car gets in general very decent reviews, appear to offer decent prices on the second hand 3 year old market after someone else has paid the majority of the depreciation, will be able to be charged at home when its sitting doing nothing, and on a tariff that is half the price of petrol right now.

What's not to like if you can afford it? Have your eyes open about range. Ev's have "economy" figures like MPG.
Currently I get a very decent 4.5 miles/kWh, rises to 5.1miles/kWh in summer and down to around 4miles/kWh in winter. That's on a 9 year old Leaf with a 24kWh battery. I don't know what the real life expected miles/kWh is for the e-C4. Just like with a petrol car different drivers of the same car will get different fuel economy.

Give it a gentle ride and you'll get more miles/kWh, and give it gentle charging regime if you want longevity. On the road electricity is roughly the same equivalent price as petrol right now, but you are better off financially and battery health wise if the high power on-road rapid charging is reserved for occasional use, and regular charging is done at home. The 20%-80% thing is obviously not compulsory but in many ways sensible. Its quicker charging in that range of battery state of charge, and it is always better to arrive at a planned charger visit on a journey with a decent amount in hand, just in case you have to find an alternative. I have never run out of electricity yet adopting that policy.

It would be nice to have a few more plungetakers in the FCF fold, so I hope you bring your e-C4 potential purchase to a conclusion, and enjoy the new driving experience.

Neil

[Gibbo2286]

When I collected the car it had 197 miles range on the clock, I drove it the 46 miles home via the M4- M48 and on arriving home it's showing 170 miles range left, didn't particularly drive for economy but.......................

[osx]

Did a test drive today. Similar experience with the range. Power enough for normal driving, feels almost the same as the 2.0 HDi. The suspension is definitely softer compared to the German and Japanese family cars but not as close as I was expecting to the "traditional" Citroen feeling (even the X7 with 19 wheels felt softer). No electric seats (think that's a rarity in the eC4 world) but otherwise equipment more than enough (Shine Plus). Was able to use the infotainment system - agree not the most intuitive interface but seen worse.
I think it is a very reasonable proposal - just wish that the suspension was more Citroen like.

[Gibbo2286]

On the new Zoe the suspension has three settings soft regular and sport according to the manual although I haven't tried it yet, still moving through the long list of options one at a time.

[NewcastleFalcon]

OSX, you may find this of some background use. It is a thread on the e-C4 section on SpeakEV titled

Citroen e-C4 consumption
link
https://www.speakev.com/threads/citroen ... onsumption

Average for the e-C4 from one poster reported be around 3 to 3.5 miles per kWh in real driving over a couple of years. Considerably less than 4.5 to 5.1 I get in the the Leaf. Heavier batteries albeit more capacity and greater total range, do most of the damage there, and I do drive in an economical style. The thread concerns someone reporting that he only gets 2miles/kWh. Something obviously wrong there and various reasons discussed.

The thread if you give it a read also has a link to a facebook group specifically for the e-C4.

One thing when driving EV's which you very quickly realise, that no matter what the tech/algorithm used the range remaining mileage figure is a GOM not a matter of fact. Yes a Guess-o-Meter based on how the car has been driven over the last x miles since the tripmeter was last reset. I get more range reported now for an 80% Charge than when I bought the car 46,000 miles and 4½ years ago in November 2019.

The guess-o-meter will go up and down on the basis of the power required to negotiate hills, and the level of regeneration selected which recharges the traction battery when slowing down, coasting downhill and braking. Gibbo's evidence of his return home from Cardiff bears this out. On stretches of road I use I can see the guess-o-meter dropping 2 miles when I have travelled 6 miles, and the reverse is the case ascending hills.

Neil

[Sloppysod]

The suspension is definitely softer compared to the German and Japanese family cars but not as close as I was expecting to the "traditional" Citroen feeling (even the X7 with 19 wheels felt softer). No electric seats (think that's a rarity in the eC4 world) but otherwise equipment more than enough (Shine Plus).

Look at the C-series (50kw version) or the E-series (54kw version), if you want electric seats etc…
I agree about the suspension, but realistically, you will never get close to the traditional Citroën 'wet' suspension unless you spend a lot of money and get a car with Air suspension, such as the BIG Audis, Mercedes, BMWs, Lexus…).

[osx]

Next in line for test drive Volvo EX30 and a MB EQE (both will work well with salary sacrifice).

[tony42]

Since a thread has already been started I might as well use it to add my experiences since purchase.

First of all just a bit of background. Have a 2.0HDI C5 Estate 2016. BlueHDI with stop start. The other car was a C4 2013 1.6HDI imported from the UK when 3 years old. 90bhp one. It has been great and had no intention of selling it but! My daughter graduated and although insured in the car for years she was moving to Waterford. We ended up selling her the C4 because it was impossible to find a decent secondhand car at a reasonable price. Things are crazy here with secondhand prices since covid. First time ever secondhand cars have increased in value across the board. We could have sold the C4 for the price we paid in 2019.

Did my research and found an E-C4 C-series 2yrs old with 17.5K in a Citroen dealer. Price was 21.5K euro. New price here in Ireland for this model would be at least 36K. The dealer lent the car to be for the weekend and that was a good idea on his part. Loved the whole concept. It is very pleasurable to drive, suspension is really decent and like lots of Citroens over the years it punched above its price point in lots of areas.

We installed a Zappi charger and I was involved. Expensive due to the cable run. 1.9K euro net of grant. Look I decided no matter what at some I was going to have to embrace EV's and although it was earlier than I expected, I just decided to grin and bear the upfront costs.

I watched a range of reviews done by owners some UK based (very good and accurate) and to be fair everything they are really accurate in their assessment of the car. The range is ideal for me as I live in the city. I appear to be getting about 270-290 range around town. This would be from circa 91% down to low teens. I use eco mode all the time and regenerate. Charging so far has been at home and is either every 2 weeks or once a week. Definitely for a trip to Galway etc I will have to factor in charging en-route. Charging in Ireland is definitely behind the UK but it is getting better. Haven't done this type of journey yet but expect it will just take longer than using my C5 diesel and no doubt I will be driving more conservatively. This doesn't bother me (I think!) as I feel the 'golden' age of ICE car filling up and putting the pedal to the metal is fast coming to an end, one way or the other.

The good things: Really comfortable, silent, adaptable cruise control, suspension, automatic (nearly one pedal when using regenerate). Very non-fatiguing space to be in. So far really cheap to run. Night rate is 15.5 cents (euro). front and rear parking sensors, heated seat, heat pump and nice comfortable seats.

The bad things: Lots of these things are very typical of Citroen products over the years which probably relate to budgets and the requirement to turn out a car at a price point. The app is terrible. Updates over the internet by download are life sapping. It is obvious they have no experience and have not put enough effort into developing something that will really annoy people and put future customers off. The infotainement system is very poor to average. The latest model has improved it but I have no experience of that. Connecting phone or updating info or satnav is through the USB-c port only. Due to battery size the range is just a bit too small if you have a 250-300Km drive at fast motorway speeds. But I do understand a much larger battery causes other issues and recognize for 90% + of my driving it doesn't impact it. Hence I think Citroen have got the balance probably right.

Time will tell if this works out to be a great purchase like my BX's, Xantias and C5's. I have the comfort of an 8 year battery warranty (6 yrs left), 3 years of full warranty left on the car and roadside assist for another year. The biggest chunk of depreciation has happened already ( I hope). Feel this was the right time to purchase as secondhand EV's are being savagely hit. This might be to my gain or else the market knows the real story and I have bought a lemon!

For the moment I think I have got a really decent car that is just a bit different. I hope it will work with my C5 diesel to prolong the life of that for long journeys and carrying heavy loads. I will admit that the first car I pick going out now anywhere in Dublin is the C4. Just very pleasurable to drive.

I will update this thread on any disasters that will no doubt occur over the next while

[NewcastleFalcon]

Since a thread has already been started I might as well use it to add my experiences since purchase.

Thanks Tony a couple of minutes read of a post from someone with first hand experience in my book is far more valuable than one of the journo reviews when they get given a car for a couple of hours and warble on about how big the boot is and how many cupholders it has.

Home installations of charging points are in my view unnecessarily expensive often perversely made more so by the grants, and the add on unnecessary "smartness" of the boxes, but I see over the longer term the initial outlay is beneficial for convenience. Not everyone wants to work the Bargain Basement installation like me. I currently just use the three pin plug granny charger on a dedicated circuit, granted on a small (by 2024 standards) 24kWh Leaf.

I might suggest you start a blog in the Blogs section before this thread once again gets submerged and lost through intermittent activity within the Citroen section. Most of the time not much to report hopefully, but at least should people be interested in going for a second hand e C4 they could find your blog and ask some questions of your experience.

Neil

[GiveMeABreak]

My concern would be what happens when you get near to the 8 year period - who's going to want to buy it with the Reduced battery capacity that it will have? I think it's still too early for many people to adopt, as we need to see how these batteries fare towards the 8 year period and how much of a charge they can hold at this sort of age.

[NewcastleFalcon]

My concern would be what happens when you get near to the 8 year period - who's going to want to buy it with the Reduced battery capacity that it will have? I think it's still too early for many people to adopt, as we need to see how these batteries fare towards the 8 year period and how much of a charge they can hold at this sort of age.

Mine is already there Marc, not concerned in the least. 80,000miles and 11 out of the original 12 bars capacity, and the car owes me nothing, and has given me the best VFM motoring over the last 4¾ years, even if I sold it for £0.00 today.

Neil

[GiveMeABreak]

Thanks for that info Neil. This is the sort of thing people need to know.

When I see the issues with Hybrids like the DS5 from 2013 that require a £6k hybrid battery without fitting, it's sounds daunting.

I also note the E- C3 was supposed to be out in Feb., but more delays on that...