Hi All
Im new to this forum and as yet never owned a Citroen vehicle of any kind so would appreciate advice as to which model you would recommend as regards to economy and reliabilty.Noticed while browsing these pages the ECU as been discredited once or twice, is this specific the Citroen ???? also the the turbo's ??? Thanks S
Help Plzzzz
Moderator: RichardW
I wouldn't lose too much sleep about the ECUs on these. Put into perspective, the production runs of various models usually exceeds a million. In the case of the BX I think it was about 2.5 million units, so how many have ECU problems? .00001% maybe?
If you follow many of the threads you refer to, chances are that you have struck a lot of kneejerk responses that have suggested the ECU but if you follow them through it's more often a case of so many people having ECU phobia than them being a cause of concern as it seems too many will start blaming the ECU for anything from a mechanical knock to a flickering headlight.
Electrical problems are a different kettle of fish; that's something the French seem to have had never ending problems with and you'll find these more annoying than expensive.
As regards models, you need to look at your use for the vehicle. I'm in Australia, so in my case I had a CX C-matic for around town and a BX16V for long trips.
A well serviced car (not necessarily by a dealer) is almost a necessity as most problems seem to stem from lack of maintenance and abuse rather than inherant faults. A well serviced and maintained car seems to have an almost unlimited lifespan as we've proved out here with cars of 50s - 70s vintage still going strong are quite common.
It is almost mandatory that you must have the ability and desire to do a certain amount of DIY work on the car to keep them in optimum condition and reliability as well as this also giving you the ability to keep repair costs down as the exhorbitant repair costs you hear of on these cars inevitable comes from some repairers capitalising on owners ignorance & unfounded fears of the designs. I recently saw some invoices for a car out here that had constant accounts referring to "Major service to the ECU" with in one case. service to the EFi shown as an additional charge; that's the kind of thing you need to be aware of. In this case, there was no way the ECU can be serviced; it was a straight out con.
It's pitiful the way some of these characters will rip off owners but the basic knowledge will overcome this.
Decide what kind of use you want. If distance work I'd suggest in the UK possibly a turbo diesel for a nice mix of power and economy. Body style; just name your poison....they got them all.
Alan S
If you follow many of the threads you refer to, chances are that you have struck a lot of kneejerk responses that have suggested the ECU but if you follow them through it's more often a case of so many people having ECU phobia than them being a cause of concern as it seems too many will start blaming the ECU for anything from a mechanical knock to a flickering headlight.
Electrical problems are a different kettle of fish; that's something the French seem to have had never ending problems with and you'll find these more annoying than expensive.
As regards models, you need to look at your use for the vehicle. I'm in Australia, so in my case I had a CX C-matic for around town and a BX16V for long trips.
A well serviced car (not necessarily by a dealer) is almost a necessity as most problems seem to stem from lack of maintenance and abuse rather than inherant faults. A well serviced and maintained car seems to have an almost unlimited lifespan as we've proved out here with cars of 50s - 70s vintage still going strong are quite common.
It is almost mandatory that you must have the ability and desire to do a certain amount of DIY work on the car to keep them in optimum condition and reliability as well as this also giving you the ability to keep repair costs down as the exhorbitant repair costs you hear of on these cars inevitable comes from some repairers capitalising on owners ignorance & unfounded fears of the designs. I recently saw some invoices for a car out here that had constant accounts referring to "Major service to the ECU" with in one case. service to the EFi shown as an additional charge; that's the kind of thing you need to be aware of. In this case, there was no way the ECU can be serviced; it was a straight out con.
It's pitiful the way some of these characters will rip off owners but the basic knowledge will overcome this.
Decide what kind of use you want. If distance work I'd suggest in the UK possibly a turbo diesel for a nice mix of power and economy. Body style; just name your poison....they got them all.
Alan S
Hi Stuart22
It's no good I cant resist giving the ole reliable ZX 1.9D a plug. [:o)] If you stick to the pre June 94 model you avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags [:D]. Turbo's are fine, but its still lots more bits and pieces that can go wrong..
You should be able to get a fairly good ZX for about £800.. [:D] And as Alan S stated, if you look after it, you will get 55+ mpg, and they will go on and on and on - - - [^]
It's no good I cant resist giving the ole reliable ZX 1.9D a plug. [:o)] If you stick to the pre June 94 model you avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags [:D]. Turbo's are fine, but its still lots more bits and pieces that can go wrong..
You should be able to get a fairly good ZX for about £800.. [:D] And as Alan S stated, if you look after it, you will get 55+ mpg, and they will go on and on and on - - - [^]
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Stuart McB
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£800 wow that'll be a minter then. I paid £595 for an 'L' reg ZX TD Avantave and just gave it an oil change. Cheap reliable motoring and 51 MPG was great (Dual carrage way). The mechanicals are very basic and the diesel is unburstable. There's so many ZX's about take your time and have a good hard look. If you want some thing a bit more modern and have a couple of grand to spare then have a look at a Xsara, Xantia or even the little Saxo (MK1) all good cars with the same reputation as other manufactures models.
Thanks you guys for the replies and thanks Alans for such a detailed answer 
JamesUK Im really looking to try a newer model than one 10 years plus of age and from your reply it seems you have had trouble with the newer Citroen models which have spec above the basics ie: avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags ...if poss could you give me afew more details of the problems you have had as regards these items and on which models. Notice you own two of the older diesels, dont you find these lacking quite alot on both power and performance ? I have owned one are two non turbo diesels in the past but found them so sluggish and unresponsive.The petrol cars I have had with ECUs Cats Airbags ect have never proved to be a problem at all so are you saying ECUs on the Citroen diesels you have owned gave you a headache ? as for Cats is it not now a legal requirement all cars be fitted with them over a certain age ? airbags could you elaborate as to the problem with these.Thanks again S
JamesUK Im really looking to try a newer model than one 10 years plus of age and from your reply it seems you have had trouble with the newer Citroen models which have spec above the basics ie: avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags ...if poss could you give me afew more details of the problems you have had as regards these items and on which models. Notice you own two of the older diesels, dont you find these lacking quite alot on both power and performance ? I have owned one are two non turbo diesels in the past but found them so sluggish and unresponsive.The petrol cars I have had with ECUs Cats Airbags ect have never proved to be a problem at all so are you saying ECUs on the Citroen diesels you have owned gave you a headache ? as for Cats is it not now a legal requirement all cars be fitted with them over a certain age ? airbags could you elaborate as to the problem with these.Thanks again S-
RichardW
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'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl - x 996
You cannot guarantee any car is not going to fail big time, and Citroens are not really any worse than any others. Sporadic ABS computer failures on earlier Xantias, Xantia alarm ECUs almost always give trouble sooner or later. Outline:
ZX - available up to 97, Focus size. TD is good performance / economy. No computers to be seen (ABS and drivers airbag on some models)
Xsara - ZX replacement. More computers, particularly after 2001 when multiplex wiring reared its head. Old XUD turbo D still available, but also newer HDi computer controlled direct injection engine.
Xantia - available till 01, Mondeo size. Same XUD TD engine as ZX, but more weight so a bit slow. 2.1 TD (110 BHP better, but ECU controlled, and rare. Available with HDi (90 / 110 BHP) after 1998 - more computers. ABS ECUs slightly dodgy, alarm ECUs often dodgy. Most engine ECUs seem OK.
All available with range of petrol engines from 1.4 in ZX / Xsara up to 2.0 turbo and 3.0 V6 in Xantia. Not the most refined, but generally reliable if looked after.
Find a good 'un that's been looked after, hide your shock at the low price [8D], look after it, and it will look after you - unlikely you will ever buy anything else. Buy a (very) cheap bad 'un and you will swear all Citroens are the spawn of Satan, and never come back....
What size / performance level are you looking for?
ZX - available up to 97, Focus size. TD is good performance / economy. No computers to be seen (ABS and drivers airbag on some models)
Xsara - ZX replacement. More computers, particularly after 2001 when multiplex wiring reared its head. Old XUD turbo D still available, but also newer HDi computer controlled direct injection engine.
Xantia - available till 01, Mondeo size. Same XUD TD engine as ZX, but more weight so a bit slow. 2.1 TD (110 BHP better, but ECU controlled, and rare. Available with HDi (90 / 110 BHP) after 1998 - more computers. ABS ECUs slightly dodgy, alarm ECUs often dodgy. Most engine ECUs seem OK.
All available with range of petrol engines from 1.4 in ZX / Xsara up to 2.0 turbo and 3.0 V6 in Xantia. Not the most refined, but generally reliable if looked after.
Find a good 'un that's been looked after, hide your shock at the low price [8D], look after it, and it will look after you - unlikely you will ever buy anything else. Buy a (very) cheap bad 'un and you will swear all Citroens are the spawn of Satan, and never come back....
What size / performance level are you looking for?
Citroen diesels have been in a class of their own since the '80's and have led the field in all respects. Even the humble 1.9D ZX goes very nicely and will hold high speeds without stress all day. TD's go even better. Most ecu's function very well, you must remember that this is a DIY forum and few of us have access to the proper diagnostic kit and are anxious to avoid paying someone else to do it for us.
if you read through the posts you will see that the hydraulics can be sorted by DIY mechanics as can most other problems, depending how involved you wish to get. I don't think there are any problems with Citroen cats in particular, the correspondence is generally that we would rather not buy another unless it is really necessary and this goes for many other components.
generally these cars are extremely durable, many of us have diesels going well approaching 200,000 miles and there is a customer of GSF who apparently uses his BX every day with 900,000 miles on it.
remember any other car you buy of equivalent age is going to have computers and cats, probably made by the same people.
the ZX has a charm of its own, rides and handles extremely well. the same probably goes for the others of which i have little knowledge.
jeremy
Jeremy
if you read through the posts you will see that the hydraulics can be sorted by DIY mechanics as can most other problems, depending how involved you wish to get. I don't think there are any problems with Citroen cats in particular, the correspondence is generally that we would rather not buy another unless it is really necessary and this goes for many other components.
generally these cars are extremely durable, many of us have diesels going well approaching 200,000 miles and there is a customer of GSF who apparently uses his BX every day with 900,000 miles on it.
remember any other car you buy of equivalent age is going to have computers and cats, probably made by the same people.
the ZX has a charm of its own, rides and handles extremely well. the same probably goes for the others of which i have little knowledge.
jeremy
Jeremy
I seem to remember there was a known xantia specific e.c.u. problem, whereby a lot of them failed the m.o.t. on emmisions and the e.c.u. had to be remapped by the dealers - unfortunately I don't know which ones were affected but someone else will. I would imagine, however that they have all been done by now.
You will probably find the non turbo diesels a bit of a revalation if you have been used to the ones dished up by ford, vauxhall etc- they really do drive like petrol cars, only noisier, and the turbo's are even better.
The build quality, however, has definately gone right down over the last couple of years- Citroen are chasing volume sales and are building down to a price; witness the C3 owners on watchdog.
As an example a friend bought a brand new Xsara Picasso last year, from a main dealer; it was supposedly p.d.i.'d but the drivers door seal was actually completely missing, and there was a deep dent in one of the sills. It was returned for repair and they didn't seem too surprised.
It had obviously just been transported from a storage field somewhere and had never been near the dealers- it was ,however, cheap.
You will probably find the non turbo diesels a bit of a revalation if you have been used to the ones dished up by ford, vauxhall etc- they really do drive like petrol cars, only noisier, and the turbo's are even better.
The build quality, however, has definately gone right down over the last couple of years- Citroen are chasing volume sales and are building down to a price; witness the C3 owners on watchdog.
As an example a friend bought a brand new Xsara Picasso last year, from a main dealer; it was supposedly p.d.i.'d but the drivers door seal was actually completely missing, and there was a deep dent in one of the sills. It was returned for repair and they didn't seem too surprised.
It had obviously just been transported from a storage field somewhere and had never been near the dealers- it was ,however, cheap.
Hi Stuart22.
>>JamesUK Im really looking to try a newer model than one 10 years plus of age and from your reply it seems you have had trouble with the newer Citroen models which have spec above the basics ie: avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags ...if poss could you give me afew more details of the problems you have had as regards these items and on which models. <<
I haven't had any problems with any of the above, because I have avoided them! [:o)] As for "cats" I think they are just an expensive waste of space..
>>Notice you own two of the older diesels, dont you find these lacking quite alot on both power and performance ? <<
With the massive growth of speed camera's, traffic congestion, and "anti speed campaigners" I swopped speed for reliability, and I am delighted with the results. [:)] erm accept that I got done for speeding again recently [:I] even my ole Avantage can do a LOT more than 70, and can keep it up all day [:D] what more can I ask for?
>>which model you would recommend as regards to economy and reliabilty.<<
My answer to that is as before.. Get a good ole uncomplicated ZX 1.9D [:D]
>>JamesUK Im really looking to try a newer model than one 10 years plus of age and from your reply it seems you have had trouble with the newer Citroen models which have spec above the basics ie: avoid Cats, ECU's, and air-bags ...if poss could you give me afew more details of the problems you have had as regards these items and on which models. <<
I haven't had any problems with any of the above, because I have avoided them! [:o)] As for "cats" I think they are just an expensive waste of space..
>>Notice you own two of the older diesels, dont you find these lacking quite alot on both power and performance ? <<
With the massive growth of speed camera's, traffic congestion, and "anti speed campaigners" I swopped speed for reliability, and I am delighted with the results. [:)] erm accept that I got done for speeding again recently [:I] even my ole Avantage can do a LOT more than 70, and can keep it up all day [:D] what more can I ask for?
>>which model you would recommend as regards to economy and reliabilty.<<
My answer to that is as before.. Get a good ole uncomplicated ZX 1.9D [:D]