well, currently my fleet consists of: a Triumph Toledo, 2 Dolomites & a 1500TC.
The BX is the workhorse, but is in VGC, bought with 67K now with 91K. It had been looked after before I got it (apart from it being sat outside unused for 6 years - it had a small shunt)
Interior is mint, but with regards to the plastics issue, peugeot 405 plastics, esp the switchgear doesn't seem to be as good as the BX, even though the Citroen is more "tacky".
Would be tempted by the Xantia 110 HDi estate but again not quite as roomy inside. I can fit a Dolomite bonnet flat down in the back of the BX without putting the seats down.
I just wish Citroen would get an economical performance estate; they are starting to be left behind...
I have noticed people sitting in the BX have looked behind them and exclaimed: "It's bloody huge in here!".
Citroen disappointment
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Rob Marshall
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DoubleChevron
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New cars aren't that safe. I have it on very good, if not the best, authority in the world that there is a lot more that could be done but there is a reluctance in the auto industry due to expense. Making cars heavier is a bad start as that just adds to the impact energy with an inefficient return in energy absortion capability. There hasn't been a sudden increase in knowledge recently that has allowed cars to become more safe they have just had to due to legislation.
Road cars are way too fast for the average motorist and average car safety systems. People ride their cars they dont control them. There's a 9/11 every day in terms of deaths and something like 10 times that in injuries. But would you buy a new car if it went like a 2CV? They made cars fast before safe to make money and its too late now to slow them down because people are too used to the performance. If you drove a Ford Model T for a year and then you got into a 1.0 Citroen AX you'd think it was a flying machine.
Apologies; I had to have my rant!
Road cars are way too fast for the average motorist and average car safety systems. People ride their cars they dont control them. There's a 9/11 every day in terms of deaths and something like 10 times that in injuries. But would you buy a new car if it went like a 2CV? They made cars fast before safe to make money and its too late now to slow them down because people are too used to the performance. If you drove a Ford Model T for a year and then you got into a 1.0 Citroen AX you'd think it was a flying machine.
Apologies; I had to have my rant!
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Rob Marshall
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Rob Marshall
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ghostrider
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I've asked these questions before only talking bx to xantia, it seems like the gulf between xantia and c5 is about the same. I asked here sometime ago about whether there was a market for a nice simple easy to work on car like the bx and the general consensus seemed to be...NO because we've all become to used to the luxury of electric everything, air con, abs and and and...
As to citroen falling behind in the performance diesel stakes, I'm not so sure they have, My mates e320 Merc does about 30 unless driven very gently, the same applies to another friend with an Audi A6, it will do 38ish driven very gently, but the moment you start to use the performance it also tails away to around 30, The guy over the road has an HDI 110bhp xantia that he uses for shifting spuds about and reckons that he regularly gets over 50 without having to forgo the performance available.
I'd agree about the general increase in weight, the trade off between improved safety and increased weight is difficult to judge, the improvements in safety seem to have come about as a result of improvements in the way the structure of the car dissipates collision energy through its crumple zones, just look at some of the modern cars at a breakers where the important bit , the survival of the pasengers has been at the cost of the car being seriously damaged even in low speed impacts. I always thought that a 1.9 td xantia was going to be really quick, bearing in mind how much quicker a bx 1.7td is than a 1.9d, but the energy needed to accelerate all that weight (1/2 mv squared) saps the performance, witness the recent top gear run off between an original golf GTI with around 100 bhp being considerably quicker over a quarter mile than the latest 236 brake version
Pete
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Chevrolet Lakewood Specifications
As to citroen falling behind in the performance diesel stakes, I'm not so sure they have, My mates e320 Merc does about 30 unless driven very gently, the same applies to another friend with an Audi A6, it will do 38ish driven very gently, but the moment you start to use the performance it also tails away to around 30, The guy over the road has an HDI 110bhp xantia that he uses for shifting spuds about and reckons that he regularly gets over 50 without having to forgo the performance available.
I'd agree about the general increase in weight, the trade off between improved safety and increased weight is difficult to judge, the improvements in safety seem to have come about as a result of improvements in the way the structure of the car dissipates collision energy through its crumple zones, just look at some of the modern cars at a breakers where the important bit , the survival of the pasengers has been at the cost of the car being seriously damaged even in low speed impacts. I always thought that a 1.9 td xantia was going to be really quick, bearing in mind how much quicker a bx 1.7td is than a 1.9d, but the energy needed to accelerate all that weight (1/2 mv squared) saps the performance, witness the recent top gear run off between an original golf GTI with around 100 bhp being considerably quicker over a quarter mile than the latest 236 brake version
Pete
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Chevrolet Lakewood Specifications
Last edited by ghostrider on 22 Feb 2011, 05:49, edited 1 time in total.
Are C5's really that bad? I was seriously thinking of upgrading to one this year but having read about the lack of DIY and harder suspension I'm beginning to think that I might just get a newer diesel Xantia (Hate the petrol engine I've got). Anyone seen a particular depreciation in value of the C5 yet? They do still seem rather expensive for Citroen cars [:D]
Okay
not read the entire thread, and I am BX fan but:
BX seats - only good in GTi form otherwise the cause of many lower back problems. But even in Gti form unless you are a midget (in which case read no further) the head restraints are perfectly positioned to snap ones neck at the slightest hint of a rear shunt.
(best Cit seats I've experienced were in an XM and they were far inferior to Ford Scorpio seats)
Air bags - need replacing at approx 10 yrs, at £400 - £800 a piece I wonder if that will happen to vehicles with 6 or 8 bags a little further down the road ?
A heavy car with lots of "safety" features only has an advantage if it impacts at low speed into a lighter car or object, I think that if you really understood the situation you would probably never travel by car again.
The firing of air-bags also appears to be hit and miss:
My wife has a friend who is scarred from a car accident - from the air bag cover hitting her in the face after it fired when she had a very minor altercation (yes she may have been sitting too close to the steering wheel but she isn't very big - not a midget though).
And at work our transport department has many instances of serious impacts where the air-bags did not fire - see the salvage section of the auto-trader for confirmation of this).
I think it's probably my age but (and despite the fact that I work in IT) I think that onboard computers are for the space shuttle not family saloons, just off to buy that series Landy.
Finally, as much as I'd love to hate em, the C5 is definately growing on me, followed one the other day over some rough road surface and it looked well composed. You have to compare them to their contemporaries not to the Cit's of the past.
Mark
not read the entire thread, and I am BX fan but:
BX seats - only good in GTi form otherwise the cause of many lower back problems. But even in Gti form unless you are a midget (in which case read no further) the head restraints are perfectly positioned to snap ones neck at the slightest hint of a rear shunt.
(best Cit seats I've experienced were in an XM and they were far inferior to Ford Scorpio seats)
Air bags - need replacing at approx 10 yrs, at £400 - £800 a piece I wonder if that will happen to vehicles with 6 or 8 bags a little further down the road ?
A heavy car with lots of "safety" features only has an advantage if it impacts at low speed into a lighter car or object, I think that if you really understood the situation you would probably never travel by car again.
The firing of air-bags also appears to be hit and miss:
My wife has a friend who is scarred from a car accident - from the air bag cover hitting her in the face after it fired when she had a very minor altercation (yes she may have been sitting too close to the steering wheel but she isn't very big - not a midget though).
And at work our transport department has many instances of serious impacts where the air-bags did not fire - see the salvage section of the auto-trader for confirmation of this).
I think it's probably my age but (and despite the fact that I work in IT) I think that onboard computers are for the space shuttle not family saloons, just off to buy that series Landy.
Finally, as much as I'd love to hate em, the C5 is definately growing on me, followed one the other day over some rough road surface and it looked well composed. You have to compare them to their contemporaries not to the Cit's of the past.
Mark
My ZX is very comfy, and even with the auto gearbox its very economic. Its a nice car to drive, never missbehaves on corners or in wet slippery conditions. It always starts with no problems, and even after 11 years the bodywork is in excellant condition and everything on it still works as it should. And oddly enough I am perfectly happy with its appearance.. [^] Speed I can live without, erm just got done for speeding in it though. lol..
So untill they start making cars without ECU's, Turbo's, Cats, and all the bells and whistles they pile into them now, I will stick with my ZX, sure its got lecky windows and sunroof.. But nothings perfik. [:o)]
So untill they start making cars without ECU's, Turbo's, Cats, and all the bells and whistles they pile into them now, I will stick with my ZX, sure its got lecky windows and sunroof.. But nothings perfik. [:o)]
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Panjandrum
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Well, I just had to react on Mark’s speech about seats in Scorpio…
Being one of my previous cars, Scorpio 2.0 ’96 was quite comfortable, but still….
Come on man, don’t even try to tell me that seats are better than one in XM.
I got myself a ’97 XM 2.5 TD Exclusive, black leather inside; Let’s put it this way – 10 hour driving with one stop (and only because I really had to stop), and still when I got to Vienna I was ready for night out.
Scorpio – 6 hours driving and had to stop in motel to sleep over.
And don’t let me talk “elaborate” on the rest of the differences.
But I guess different people have different perception.
Being one of my previous cars, Scorpio 2.0 ’96 was quite comfortable, but still….
Come on man, don’t even try to tell me that seats are better than one in XM.
I got myself a ’97 XM 2.5 TD Exclusive, black leather inside; Let’s put it this way – 10 hour driving with one stop (and only because I really had to stop), and still when I got to Vienna I was ready for night out.
Scorpio – 6 hours driving and had to stop in motel to sleep over.
And don’t let me talk “elaborate” on the rest of the differences.
But I guess different people have different perception.
I think that once you've experienced a BX you have been well and truly spoiled as far as performance and load lugging space are concerned.
I enjoyed the Xantia but nowhere near as much as the BX, alright, it had more low end off boost grunt, but having sampled oilyspanners 1.9TD conversion in the BX, this would definitely be the way to go if low down urge is what you crave.
Me, I'm a bonafide BX estate addict and I have absolutely no intention of running any other day to day workhorse for the forseeable future.
I mean, where else can you spend 400 quid and get this level of performance and comfort? [;)]
I enjoyed the Xantia but nowhere near as much as the BX, alright, it had more low end off boost grunt, but having sampled oilyspanners 1.9TD conversion in the BX, this would definitely be the way to go if low down urge is what you crave.
Me, I'm a bonafide BX estate addict and I have absolutely no intention of running any other day to day workhorse for the forseeable future.
I mean, where else can you spend 400 quid and get this level of performance and comfort? [;)]