Citroen C5 2.0L Cdi Mk1 8 valve - cold starting problem

[PaulC5]

Looks as if a new fuel filter housing is needed, hope they are still available.
I tried to find the topic but for some reason I can not open the second or more pages on the Citroen Owners Club so could not access the page with all the filter bi metal details. However, I have now found I can change the page number in the address to get the other pages.

[Hell Razor5543]

I got my reconditioned starter motor from GSF (who, I have found, are pretty reliable with the quality and accuracy of their parts). I don't know who it was originally made by, but it was reconditioned by Bosch.

If you go to the GSF website you can set up an account with them (which can result in large discounts every so often; I had to get a new battery for my current C5, and the Yuasa would have been about £300; I got it for around £100). Then, when you enter your car reg, it should point you in the right parts direction.

[citroenguy]

How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

Is it a crank -no start problem or does it not crank at all?

[myglaren]

How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

In Sweden definitely but here they are very rarely brought into play. I can't remember seeing the glow plug indicator on either of my C5s, they always started on the button, just like a petrol engine.

[Anorak]

How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

Is it a crank -no start problem or does it not crank at all?

From what I have read, glow plugs are not used until temperatures get very low (i.e. not often in the UK):

"Here's the timings:

At a coolant temperature of:

-30°C pre-heating time 20s
-10°C pre-heating time 5s
0°C pre-heating time 0.5s
+18°C pre-heating time 0s


Here's the post heating data:

During the starting phase, the glow plugs are supplied under the following conditions :

• the coolant temperature is below 20 degrees C
• the engine runs at more than 70 rpm for 0.2 second(s)

POST HEATING

Post-heating consists of prolonging the operation of the glow plugs for a maximum of 60 seconds from the end of the starting phase .
Parameters which could interrupt post-heating :
• coolant temperature greater than 20 degrees C
• flow injected greater than 35 mm3
• engine speed above 2000 rpm"

The engine cranks freely but will not start when cold.

[Michel]

Had this very issue myself on three cars with the 2.0HDi 8v motor. My 04 plate Berlingo, 03 plate Xsara Picasso and an 02 plate C5

Replacing the starter motor on all resolved the issue immediately. I'd not waste any time researching other causes.

[Michel]

How are the glow plugs?
Quite essential on a cold moring.

Not on an HDi engine in the UK. It's nowhere near cold enough. Don't think I've ever seen any of mine activate.

[Anorak]

Well, and I hope that I'm not speaking too soon, but after replacing the fuel filter housing the engine fired up immediately; I did'nt even need to prime the system in any way. And for the past two mornings it has started almost immediately as well! Now the real test will come when we have some frosty mornings (if we ever do with climate change), and I will report back when that happens.

Just one question...in the article that highlighted the bimetallic spring problem (see previously quoted links), the guy said that his fuel filter had no electrical connections. Mine does, see below:



What is this connection used for?

Just to summarise and my conclusion to date: the starting problem was due to a faulty fuel filter housing.

[Anorak]

Spoke too soon; a slightly colder morning today and the car wouldn't start.
Looks like new starter time.

[Anorak]

New starter motor fitted and everything is fine - wow aren't they small, like something off a ride-on lawn mower!

[Anorak]

Back to square 1 - with the recent cold snap it will not start even with the new starter motor
Fires up immediately with a squirt of EasyStart.
From testing their resistance, the glow plugs seem fine.

Anyone got any more suggestions? Could it be related to the fuel pressure regulator?

[CitroJim]

Have you had a leakdown/compression test? Symptoms like this in the olden days of Indirect Injection XUD engines could often be found to be due to low compression and often because of some valves being very, very slightly held off the seats when the engine was stone-cold. Often as a result of overtight valve clearances. A quirk of the XUD ( and the TU) engine was that valve clearances were tightest when the engine was cold and as the engine warmed and 'grew' a bit through expansion the valve clearances would open up.

As the early HDi is closely related, this may be the case. Just a tad of heat and away it goes. In this case, provided by the dose of Easy Start. I'm not saying it is for sure but it's all worth a check.

One give-away, if it is caused by initial low compression, will be lots of white smoke (unburned fuel) being visible whilst cranking... You may also find unburned diesel in the sump oil too...

[Anorak]

Have you had a leakdown/compression test? Symptoms like this in the olden days of Indirect Injection XUD engines could often be found to be due to low compression and often because of some valves being very, very slightly held off the seats when the engine was stone-cold. Often as a result of overtight valve clearances. A quirk of the XUD ( and the TU) engine was that valve clearances were tightest when the engine was cold and as the engine warmed and 'grew' a bit through expansion the valve clearances would open up.

As the early HDi is closely related, this may be the case. Just a tad of heat and away it goes. In this case, provided by the dose of Easy Start. I'm not saying it is for sure but it's all worth a check.

One give-away, if it is caused by initial low compression, will be lots of white smoke (unburned fuel) being visible whilst cranking... You may also find unburned diesel in the sump oil too...

Thanks for the suggestion, although I have to say that I'm a bit doubtful that this is the cause of the problem. Even before I fitted the new starter motor, I could get it to start with a blast of a hair drier over the fuel filter housing. Surely that woudn't be enough to warm up the valve seats? I've read that some fuel pressure regulators had a small integral filter. If this was partially blocked could it be the cause of my problem?

Unfotunately with some money needed to get it through the MOT I cannot justify spending any more on it. I'm therefore probably going to scrap it, which is a great shame seeing as it had a new cambelt and water pump fitted only 2,000 miles ago, together with a total brake overhaull using genuine Citroen calipers etc..

[CitroJim]

Offered as thoughts given nothing else seems to have hit the spot!

If it starts OK at other times, I'd not suspect any little filters... But then again, in cases like this, who knows?

Sorry to hear the car may have met its end with you. Seems a shame after all the work that's been done.

[PaulC5]

Was the fuel filter housing you put on a new one or used - just thinking if the hair dryer trick on it still helps then if a used housing it may be that is also faulty.