C8 2.2HDi really hates hills - turbo or DPF issue perhaps?

[darbuck]

I suppose it makes sense if the glow plugs are that difficult to access that they weren't charged but if you are changing one in that case I would definitely do them all together for peace of mind. The compression test will be carried out on the glow plug ports anyway.

[tearing hair out]

Agreed - I suspect it's an all or nothing job in terms of compression testing and glow plugs, since there might be quite a lot of disassembly to do. For that matter, potentially an EGR valve too.

DPF ECUs seem to be about £30 on Ebay. I'm somewhat tempted to try changing that too... Assuming it doesn't need re-coding to the VIN number...

[tearing hair out]

In fact, I'm wondering if the DPF ECU has been changed in the past and it's ended up with one which expects a fuel cap sensor and it should have on that doesn't...

[darbuck]

It would need recoding I would imagine but can't confirm. Possibly changed and would need a diagbox session to confirm. The egr for a 2.0 HDI are 80 to 200€ depending on where you buy it and I assume it would be similar for the 2.2, maybe see if it is ok see if it can be cleaned they normally just carbon up.

[MH123456]

Inaccessible glow plugs are why I mentioned to test each one in-situ and replace the faulty one to eliminate a fault. I agree it's better to replace all at once but when DIYing, that can be done a bit later when you have the time and are confident the problem's resolved. If doing a compression test, then why not do them all? On the car I did it with, two of the glow plugs required far more disassembly to remove and luckily the faulty one didn't, so I could get to sorting the problem far sooner, rather than putting all the work in to replace them all and still have other faults to diagnose.

Did the problem with up-hill driving start fairly quickly or has it been gradual? If it was a fairly quick transition then I would expect it to be a measurement threshold and the fault can normally be diagnosed by addressing the problems affecting the individual sensors (the environment it's measuring or the sensor itself); if it's been gradual then things get a little more tricky and IMO you look to make sure the conditions for the engine are good for fuel, air, ignition as mentioned previously with treating fuel water ingress; checking filters, etc. Fuelling could be a problem, check for leaks in the leak-off lines from the injectors, air in the fuel line, any signs of a leak from the fuel pump, etc. Would a timing fault code appear if it was a tooth out on the belt? Though that would be more of an instant loss in power if it were the cause. Is there smooth play in the turbo actuator? Vacuum leaks, solenoid valves, EGR valve, and so forth. Not all would generate a fault code but could contribute to a poor running car with some faults.

Most of these suggestions have probably already been made, but beware the rabbit hole where the red-herring (it likes to steal your money) is hiding; can you afford to take it to a trusted specialist to diagnose?

I hope there's a breakthrough and you can post something which one of the venerable forum members can provide a more definitive answer for you.

[Rp0thejester]

The problem is a C5 2.2 engine is the same but different to a C8 engine. On the C8 2.2 nothing is accessible really, apart from the starter motor, which is still abit of a squeeze to get to, even though it's at the front. Every other important part seems to be hidden under the dashboard so they could make more leg room inside. Which means even the slightest job is the worlds biggest faff

[darbuck]

Is it smoking badly because if you had bad rings you would expect to see a lot of smoke blue in colour, if it's whitish blue/gray or black. it would suggest fueling ratio which could be a belt a tooth out or not enough air. I've experienced both of these in the past I agree with MH that you should look at getting a leak off test done, if you don't have diagbox , if you do you should plug it in and look at your injectors, any large differences should point you towards a bad one this applies to both methods. Failing all of the above jester is probably correct on the DPF, but if any or all of the above are out of whack you will clog a new or cleaned dpf very quickly.

[Rp0thejester]

I've not had issues with mine with white or blue smoke, I did get some white whilst spraying the egr Cleaner in. Tomorrow I will take her for a run and play with vacuum pipe thingy muggy that changes it from 8V to 16V. If a bit of plastic can change it then maybe I changed it by mistake by moving hoses....

[aspire_helen]

The following is based on the 2001 2.2HDi (DW12TED4 / 4HX) engine. Your 2003 2.2HDi may differ slightly.
DPF - Your Lexia readout indicates a clear DPF. "Filter clogged" requires a pressure differential of about 900mb and a commensurate low flow rate. Your DPF status is "filter regenerated" (DPF zone e), just as it should be and reflects the lower pressure differential and good volume flow rate. Your distances since last regeneration and average over 5 are appropriate. The 180g (of cerine, not additive) through your DPF may equate to around 56,000miles, depending upon your average fuel consumption. My last DPF kept regenerating for 117,000miles (see later).
Glow plugs - glow plugs are only used as a last resort during "assisted” or “artificial regeneration". Most regenerations are "natural" ie they happen without any input from the Injection (Engine) ECU during open road/motorway-type driving at elevated exhaust temperatures. That's why the additive goes in the diesel tank so that every soot/carbon/hydrocarbon particle captured by the DPF is coated with cerine giving it the potential to burn off "naturally" whenever the exhaust temperature is elevated. So, it is important to ensure that the diesel is dosed with additive. "Assisted regeneration" is the next level - the Injection ECU raises the temperature of the exhaust gases, including increasing the demand on the alternator by turning on some electrical systems - specifically, in order, screen demister > radiator fan (low) > radiator fan (medium) > glow plugs. So, the glow plugs may not be used at all during regeneration. But, see my post on P0380 a few days ago.
EGR – Many years ago I fitted an EGR blanking plate which prevents the exhaust soot being fed back to the air inlet (available on Ebay for a few£). In fact, it has a small hole so there is some pressure differential to fool the Injection ECU. It has had no noticeable impact on performance (for an old car at least!) But, what it does do is prevent exhaust soot from clogging up the air inlet ducts and swirl chambers. All this because I had to rebuild the cylinder head at 70,000 miles due to a cambelt failure (now done 190,000miles). I discovered the entire inlet manifold and butterfly valves were caked in thick black sludge – a consequence of mixing exhaust soot with the inevitable oil mist that comes from the turbo lubrication. Might be worth you removing the air inlet manifolds and probing into the inlet.
Swirl valve – on my 2.2HDi the cup and ball joint on the end of swirl valve disconnected itself several times. I only realised this when I saw it under the bonnet – there was no noticeable effect on performance. Eventually, I wired the joint to prevent it separating. Try disconnecting the swirl valve actuator and see if it makes any difference to you.
Back to the DPF additive. I realised many years ago that the additive dosing system controlled by the Additive ECU had stopped working, so I have been adding it manually to the tank at every top-up. In my 2001 2.2HDi, its DPX42 at 37.5ml per 60ltrs (Eolys176 replaced DPX42 and may be a different dosage). I suggest you use Lexia to test the additive system - menu- “Additif_FAP” > “actuator tests”. There are 2 tests, one for the additive pump, one for the additive injector. My Additive ECU has stopped talking to the Injection ECU, so both tests fail. However, I believe the Injection ECU is continuing to regenerate the DPF regardless, and of course “natural regeneration” happens anyway (provided the cerine is in the diesel). Oh, just a thought, to avoid confusion, the Injection ECU controls the injection of fuel into the engine, and controls DPF regeneration. The Additive ECU controls the injection of the additive into the diesel tank. There is no “DPF ECU”.

[Rp0thejester]

I checked my swirl valve ball connecting thing and dang it has a powerful spring so that's working, took her out for a drive, she detests hills, it's embarrassing. It was 25c outside and started raining, temp dropped to 18c and she seemed to perk up abit. Just got home and looked under the bonnet. Hidden right at the back after the air intake reader there it was, a disconnected air pipe. Back to fault finding tomorrow.

[Rp0thejester]

For those that have a 2.2 engine in the C5, this is a C8 2.2 engine, difficult to reach anything.

so that will give a idea of what we are up against, can get to the diesel fuel filter and starter motor, after that....good luck!!

[Rp0thejester]

That 4th photo was my air pipe issue not being connected at the rear

[MattBLancs]

Have to agree that looks no fun at all really. Think you've sadly two options for an in-depth jobs in that:
- become adept at key hole surgery
Or

Spoiler: show

Extract the whole thing to work on!

thought even that looks a hard task (guess it's raise the body rather that raise the engine - IE needs a 2 post lift realistically.

Sorry if mentioned earlier, has it has a session on Diagbox? - not just fault codes, but look at the live data from the sensors, makes sure no weird values are reported, etc

[aspire_helen]

Oh dear. It looks like any significant work on the back of the cylinder head would require the engine to be dropped - even access to the glow plugs?!!

[darbuck]

That looks like a nightmare to work on. They really know how to squeeze the man hours into service work on them.yeah engine out to change the bloody glow plugs. The design is awful.