Injectors misbehaving but trying to understand the numbers

[Rhothgar]

brilliant hopefully that's it sorted now and with it adapted to hydractive you will get longer out of it. Nice handy little mod.

This only adapts a non-hydractive 3.5 diameter pipe to the hydractive strut top.

Now despite the rubber seal being horrendously split and torn, I’ve fires the car up and there is no leak.

Need to find some LHM compatible pipe now and cut some new seals. I think unreinforced fuel hose is fine. I begrudge paying £3 for a seal although if I bought four it works out at just over £4.20 a piece with postage.

I have an imminent issue with the HDi. It stopped once after about a minute the first time and then
another couple of times within 10 seconds of starting.

I suspect it is a wiring issue or the double relay is on its way out. I’ll have to wait for it to fail fully before I can be bothered to diagnose it.

Might even be linked to this strange transponder issue that I noticed the other day.

[darbuck]

Hi all, I have the injectors back and they passed testing. He's said fuel system is healthy but said I need to ensure they are seated correctly so I am going to go nuts cleaning the top of the head and ports to make sure everything is right. But I can now rule out the injectors and pump. So if it runs badly when I get them installed, it will mean another issue, I am still not sure of the regulator so I am going to try the old one in it if it still doesn't work right. Then if that makes no difference I am going to check timing again including cams and crank. My mate suggested the crank could be out 360 degrees. These are the steps I am going to go through everything methodically from this point on I have had enough of chasing my tail on this. I have ruled out fuel though at this point.

[darbuck]

brilliant hopefully that's it sorted now and with it adapted to hydractive you will get longer out of it. Nice handy little mod.

This only adapts a non-hydractive 3.5 diameter pipe to the hydractive strut top.

Now despite the rubber seal being horrendously split and torn, I’ve fires the car up and there is no leak.

Need to find some LHM compatible pipe now and cut some new seals. I think unreinforced fuel hose is fine. I begrudge paying £3 for a seal although if I bought four it works out at just over £4.20 a piece with postage.

I have an imminent issue with the HDi. It stopped once after about a minute the first time and then
another couple of times within 10 seconds of starting.

I suspect it is a wiring issue or the double relay is on its way out. I’ll have to wait for it to fail fully before I can be bothered to diagnose it.

Might even be linked to this strange transponder issue that I noticed the other day.

I had that with a Primera years ago the aerial for the immobilizer was a Siemens and kept losing the signal. New aerial and it never done it again but had gradually gotten worse to the point it wouldn't start. I would definitely start there. It's the same era of car 2001 so chances are similar if not the same type of aerial.

[Rhothgar]

I feared they would be OK. Hopefully you did not spend too much getting them tested.

As I said in previous post, you need to check the fuel pressure sensor because if that is reporting the wrong pressure then your FPR is going to try and open for longer to allow the pressure to build.

It seemed odd to me that the OCR of the FPR was at 38%. It’s working overtime at idle.

You were 100% that 230 bar pressure at idle is correct but without seeing proper evidence I’d say that is too low. We’ve been through this. An RHZ needs to be 300 bar. I don’t understand how your engine (RHR) operate 70 bar lower at idle.

So if yours IS supposed to be 300 bar then the FPR will open for longer until 300 bar is reached.

RHZ is 300 bar at 17% OCR.

I’ve no further idea really. It could well be the pump! I know it’s been mentioned before but I’d hate to think you would just get that tested on a whim. It would be a very expensive whim!

Maybe? If the fuel pressure sensor is measuring pressure incorrectly ie too low when it is actually 300 bar then the FPR will open to get it up to what IT thinks is 300 bar (which may be 400 bar!).

In that case, what do YOU think would happen?

I’ll tell you what I think but I may well be wrong. At a higher pressure than it should be, it will inject too much fuel into the cylinders and dare I hazard that all that fuel could not be burnt?

I’ll leave you to cogitate on that one for now.

EDIT. Scoping your fuel pressure sensor will not actually tell you anything because you need to be able to plumb a gauge in to check that the reading you are getting in the live data matches that on the gauge!

[darbuck]

The ECU provides a reference pressure of 230bar and the rail sensor returns a pressure of 230 +/- 5bar so I think without measuring the fuel pressure at the rail I won't be able to tell if it is lying or not. I don't currently have anything capable of measuring that kind of pressure. I am nervous trusting an Amazon special. For now I am taking it the sensor is good. I will rule everything else out in the meantime that I can starting with the timing I think. I don't want to fit the injectors until I have done this I am retracing my steps at this stage. I will post up with my findings as I progress through it. Thanks for sticking with me on this, I just need someone to bounce ideas off. Hopefully we will both have learnt something new by the time I am finished.

[Rhothgar]

Sounds good.

I don’t think the crankshaft timing can be 180 degrees out because the ECU knows where the camshaft is and the crankshaft is. I’ll stand corrected on that though.

[darbuck]

I think your right the more I think about it. Its not possible where there is cam crank synchronization. I Will however check the cams are properly synced. It's a lot of work but it doesn't cost anything and I can verify timing is100%. Otherwise I will be questioning myself. I'm pretty sure it is right but I just can't be certain without checking it.

[darbuck]

Ok so I have spoken to a few mechanics and consensus is the cams can be 180 out which means crank can be 360 out.so I am confident I am on the right track

I have since pressure tested the coolant system and it held 1 bar for 15 mins no problem so it's good including my head gasket. My next plan is to strip the back of the engine and run a compression and leak down test via the glow plugs ports.

If this is good I will re do the timing from scratch. I will test the regulator while I have the pump off as well for function. And set up back probes when I refit it to Allow me to scope it afterwards if it's still smokey. It's a lot of work but it will be worth it. If it's still smokey after all that it has to be the timing was ok and I just have to rotate the crank 360 back to where it is now.

In the words of Spok "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

The problem is I have to have surgery on my foot today so I don't know how agile I am going to be over the next week or so.

[Rhothgar]

I haven’t the mental capacity to think about this at the moment but an element that performs one rotation every 360 degrees cannot be out by 360 degrees. The cams of course can be 180 degrees and maybe then can be 540 degrees out but the crank is the crank, is it not?

Thought I suppose a crank actually rotates 1440 degrees for the full cycle across all four cylinders.

Fully agree with the Spock quote

But didn’t that first come from Hercule Poirot?

[Rhothgar]

In the words of Spok "Once you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

Actually, it was Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s character of Sherlock Holmes that said it.

Not sure if Spock did but I have a vague recollection he may have at some point. Copycat!

[myglaren]

A version of Occam's Razor.

[darbuck]

Thought you might like it. Hmm interesting that. I'm not familiar with Occam's razor.

Every two rotations of the crank is equal to 4 rotations of the cams so if I timed the cams correctly but rotated the crank once out of synch it would constantly be opening the exhaust valves when the injectors were firing on cylinder 1 and 3 I think that's my understanding of it. Although the sensors seem them line up they are lined up at different points in their cycle.the engine will run just badly.

Which means some of the diesel leaves through the exhaust during the compression bang part of the stroke. Hence the white smoke from incomplete combustion.

[Paul-R]

I'm not familiar with Occam's razor.

Basically it means that the simplest explanation is usually correct. No need to go looking for complicated answers.

[darbuck]

oh ok so not my normal way of thinking . Over complicating things. Trying not to the older I get.

[Paul-R]

I suppose it's related to the KISS ideology. (Keep It Simple Stupid)