Energy Matters:Home Solar

[NewcastleFalcon]

There should be a degree of simplicity about, having a few solar panels producing electricity, a domestic storage facility, and a choice to use that electricity in your home or to charge your car and thus saving payments to energy companies which would otherwise have had to be made.

That is the level of complexity I think I would be comfortable with going to.

Selling back to the grid/energy supplier has only one winner, even though you will get a few crumbs thrown back with the SEG payments. They buy at a lower price than they sell back, would be a strange business model if they didn't. You are better off using as much of the energy you generate for your own needs as possible and selling nothing back to the grid.

Raising the complexity further there is the laudable sounding concept of a virtual power plant (VPP). The best known of these is here and in the UK and known as the Tesla Virtual Power Plant.

Basic requirements, a Solar installation and a Testa Powerwall 2, and part of the package a key bit of casino software, using Tesla's real-time trading and control platform, known as Autobidder. With Autobidder, Tesla provides independent power producers including domestic solar (just started), utilities, and its capital partners with the ability to autonomously monetize battery assets. The domestic customer operates on a fixed symmetrical tariff for import and export, and doesn't play in the casino themselves, but TESLA uses their autobidder software and your Powerwall2 to buy and sell energy and storage...automatically and not just your excess solar.

This phrase loses me...

The Tesla Virtual Power Plant (VPP) is a modern example of a cloud-native architecture that leverages edge computing.

You dont even have to have a Tesla to join the Tesla VPP just a solar installation, and a Powerwall 2. They have teamed up with Octopus Energy in the UK to launch the Tesla Energy Plan.

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/tesla-energy-plan


REgards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

The Tesla power wall at over seven grand doesn't fit anywhere in my plans Neil.

[mickthemaverick]

The Tesla power wall at over seven grand doesn't fit anywhere in my plans Neil.

Nor mine I'm afraid!! I have added Tesla to my list of companies to avoid whenever possible for my own varying reasons! It is not a long list, in fact less than ten so life is fully tolerable without them!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Just a few snippets of information on how the Tesla Energy Plan through Octopus works. Tesla get the benefit of using your Powerwall/ Solar generation for energy trading. You get a tariff, and a fixed rate for your electricity used from the grid or exported to the grid.

Benefits have to be seen to be gained on both the customer side/ Octopus Energy/and Tesla, otherwise no-one buys a Powerwall2, and no-one signs up to the Tesla Energy Plan through Octopus.

The initial investment In Powerwall 2, over a 10 year lifespan and beyond, when the cigarette packet calculations are done, has to result in a projected return for the domestic customer in terms of substantial savings or again it would be a business model which just wouldn't work.

System Operation

Why does Tesla need control of my Powerwall?
Tesla needs to control your Powerwall to manage how and when you use your solar and stored energy. This helps reduce the wholesale market cost of the electricity you consume, giving you the best rates available and supporting the grid during peak demand.

Together with all other Powerwall owners signed up, you become part of Tesla's UK Virtual Power Plant. This automatic import and export management allows us to give you the most competitive import and export rates on the market.

How will you manage grid imports and exports?
Import and export activity will be determined automatically by our software. We base this on factors like historical energy use patterns, solar generation forecast and wholesale energy prices. Everything is optimised to maximise your savings.

Why are the imports and exports in my customised TEP quote so large?
Tesla’s advanced software optimises imports and exports to maximise your savings – topping up your Powerwall with free solar energy and the lowest-priced grid energy, then selling excess energy from solar and Powerwall when prices are highest.

This simply results in higher import and export volumes than you would see with standard manual energy management. With ‘symmetrical’ import and export rates per kWh both to and from the grid, this valuable support you offer the grid helps reduce your net costs.

Tesla Energy Plan is a ‘symmetrical’ tariff, meaning the 24/7 import rate and 24/7 export rate are the same, also referred to as net metering. The symmetrical import/export pricing varies according to location.

Tesla Energy Plan offers low flat import rates (£0.24 - £0.26 per kWh, according to location).
Tesla Energy Plan offers high flat export rates (£0.24 - £0.26 per kWh, according to location).
Fixed standing charge of £0.45 per day.

Regards Neil

[Peter.N.]

Simplicity is one of the reasons I favour lead acid batteries - and cost of course.

Peter

[NewcastleFalcon]

Unfortunately when you try to delve a bit more into TESLA Virtual Power Plants, Powerwalls and Autobidder, you come up against some fairly dreadful presentations from the USA.

From what I have come across, the current model where you buy the Powerwall2 and your 4kW plus Solar Array, the Octopus managed Tesla Energy Plan gives the same customer unit price for both export and import of electricity. The risk is taken out of any trading for the customer. Tesla get access to manage the Powerwall2 with their autobidder trading and control platform, and pocket any revenues they make on the trades.

Significantly this could well be Tesla's first venture into the domestic arena for the system. Tesla have already been granted a UK electricity generation licence ahead of the push to create a UK Tesla Virtual Power Plant.

https://theenergyst.com/tesla-granted-e ... 20platform.

Where do the the real revenues lie, in selling Powerwall2's , or in the Autobidder trading and control platform to buy and sell energy and storage through the Powerwall2's?

While they can continue selling Powerwall2's at a premium, obviously nice little earner, but the trading transactions through Autobidder are likely to provide the biggest returns for Tesla.

Regards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

I lost a bit of interest it Tesla when the guy started pushing bitcoin fake money.

[bobins]

Am I missing something with the Tesla system ? It seems that they have virtually nil financial risk in each one of these installations, but have the tech to make money out of it. I can see there's a benefit to the householder with this sytem, but I can't help thinking that's dwarfed by the benefit to Tesla - or have I misunderstood it ?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Am I missing something with the Tesla system ? It seems that they have virtually nil financial risk in each one of these installations, but have the tech to make money out of it. I can see there's a benefit to the householder with this sytem, but I can't help thinking that's dwarfed by the benefit to Tesla - or have I misunderstood it ?

I think that's the conclusion I arrived at. Its probably even better than the AirBnB model of owning no hotels but being the biggest operator in the travel industry. Tesla own no power stations, sell you the stuff to make one for them at your home, and assume control of the sales of the output from your power station, use your powerwall2 like a public convenience to buy low sell high from the grid with their Autobidder tech, and throw a crumb of a slightly better unit rate to the customer.

I could have missed something too though

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Methinks it may be coming more obvious why they are on my blacklist!

[Gibbo2286]

I found the prices I got quoted last time I looked for the battery.

[NewcastleFalcon]

Flick through this if you want, headline is

Americans will install a record 5.6 GW of residential solar in 2022 – here’s why

https://electrek.co/2022/08/29/american ... ial-solar/

I liked one of the comments...

The best time to install solar is when you first started researching it. The second best time is now!

Regards Neil

[mickthemaverick]

Flick through this if you want, headline is

Regards Neil

I found a different comment rather thought provoking:
"They also want to reduce reliance on the grid in the face of extreme weather."

So when you get a few days of constant rain or snow and blizzrds you are ok because you have solar power?

[NewcastleFalcon]

Maybe not domestic solar in the UK yet but an interesting little video...just a hint of "Maverick" thinking in the reflectors and a nice tilting mechanism in a neat package



Regards Neil

[Gibbo2286]

Looks a bit special Neil, any suggested prices yet?