Speed Limits

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mickthemaverick
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by mickthemaverick »

Indeed they do Neil, and may well happen when such footage becomes available. However there would be an inherent issue with prosecution as such footage would identify the vehicle but not the driver. I foresee a 'Sorry m'lud we cannot be sure which of us was driving at that time' type defence mak8ng it difficult to secure a conviction. The obvious answer would be to fine and endorse all licenced occupants but I don't think that can happen!! I would argue that permitting the carriage of passengers in the caravan towed by a vehicle you are travelling in is as bad as the driver allowing it! :-D

There is also a group of drivers with quite large families who often travel in pick up trucks with caravans. Without a doubt the entire family cannot fit in the front of a 3 seat transit so where do the rest travel? :?
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myglaren
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by myglaren »

In cases like that the registered owner is responsible. If they are unable to identify the driver then they have to take the points/fines.
Seen that a lot on the YouTube dashcam videos, including several by Cycling Mikey.
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Paul-R
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by Paul-R »

bobins wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:16
Two of these pick-up trucks have the same speed limits as a car, one of them doesn't. Can you tell which is which ? :)
On the purely unscientific basis that it doesn't have two doors, the four door Isuzu.
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Of course now one of the major planks in enforcement of observation of speed limits comes in the form of being built into the vehicle now, and has had much discussion on the thread

Speed limiters and black boxes
https://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/ ... 44#p689244

The legislation came into force for all new models of cars given "type approval" from 6th July 2022. All current models will have to have Intelligent Speed Assistance and data logging fitted to be sold from 7th July 2024.

Effectively it means that every new car will have to have these features to be sold in the UK, and Europe from July 2024.

REgards Neil
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bobins
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by bobins »

Paul-R wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:38
bobins wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:16
Two of these pick-up trucks have the same speed limits as a car, one of them doesn't. Can you tell which is which ? :)
On the purely unscientific basis that it doesn't have two doors, the four door Isuzu.
Nope ! :-D
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bobins
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by bobins »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:43
Of course now one of the major planks in enforcement of observation of speed limits comes in the form of being built into the vehicle now, and has had much discussion on the thread

The legislation came into force for all new models of cars given "type approval" from 6th July 2022. All current models will have to have Intelligent Speed Assistance and data logging fitted to be sold from 7th July 2024.

Effectively it means that every new car will have to have these features to be sold in the UK, and Europe from July 2024.

REgards Neil
But not trucks, vans, motorbikes, pick-up trucks, car derived vans, light goods vehicles ????? :-k
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NewcastleFalcon
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

The simple leaflet, as on my link, legislation ploughers-through welcome to list the full details and chapter and verse. Dont be fooled by the European Commission ref the UK has adopted it lock stock and barrel.

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REgards Neil
Last edited by NewcastleFalcon on 20 Jul 2022, 10:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Fastest towing excess I've seen was on the A40 Newport to Ross on Wye road, I was on 70 mph and overtaken by an LDV van towing a rally car on a trailer, he must have been on 100 mph, my brother who was with me joked "I nearly got out I thought we'd stopped." The van was sign written but I won't name the team.
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bobins
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by bobins »

I've just been delving into the black boxes and speed limiter regs and it's not quite what the headlines make out.

From the European Transport Safety Council: "ETSC has also warned that the final technical standards for in-vehicle ‘black boxes’, also known as Electronic Data Recorders (EDRs) will leave the devices virtually useless to safety researchers. That’s because the specifications prohibit the recording of time, date and location information – which is essential to reconstructing the facts of a vehicle collision. ETSC says that the specifications for EDRs must be revised as soon as possible."
https://etsc.eu/july-6th-2022-vehicle-s ... p-forward/

And from the EU itself: (Re: Speed Limters) " At this stage, there is no conclusive evidence as to which of the four proposed feedback technologies will be significantly more effective or less annoying in real-world driving conditions in the EU. All the presently available and reviewed research on effectiveness and annoyance, including on the warning sound, reflects primarily laboratory based simulation testing and not the real-world performance, as those EU ISA compliant systems will only be deployed in motor vehicles as of now.

The effectiveness and reliability of the different ISA systems have to be assessed once sufficient number of motor vehicles equipped with such systems have been placed on the market and the relevant real-life experience is available. It is also essential that such evaluation is made as soon as possible and, if necessary, the requirements in this Commission Delegated Regulation are amended accordingly. It is provided that the Commission assess the effectiveness of the ISA systems by 31 December 2025 (which is earlier than the overall review foreseen in Article 14 of Regulation (EU) 2019/2144 by July 2027) on the basis of the information to be provided by the vehicle manufacturers and approval authorities of the EU Member States."
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 3084&rid=1

So we could get into the scenario where new vehicles are mandated to have the speed limiters fitted, then a few years after that the regs are amended because they didn't prove as good as they thought they were going to be :roll:
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Intelligent speed assistance for Motorcycles too :?:

While Cars Vans Trucks and Buses are covered by the new legislation which applied from July 6th, Motorcycles were not, but is is anticipated that they will.

REgards Neil
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mickthemaverick
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by mickthemaverick »

bobins wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:16
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 08:51

The other odd ball in that list is the "Car Derived Van" or "dual purpose vehicle" which have the same speed limts as cars while "normal" vans have a restriction of 50mph on single carriageway roads....hello speed limit observing couriers.


REgards Neil

Two of these pick-up trucks have the same speed limits as a car, one of them doesn't. Can you tell which is which ? :)

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I would say the middle one with the tank in the load space taking it over the 3.5 tonne limit? :)
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Down at the bottom of the page of Bobins link was this
and in the Guardian...even talk of reducing speed limits on the autobahn
As seen from the USA's efforts in the 70's and 80's with the National Maximum Speed Limit Law, little benefit if intended measures are not enforced.

Regards Neil
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bobins
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by bobins »

mickthemaverick wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 11:32
bobins wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 10:16
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 08:51

The other odd ball in that list is the "Car Derived Van" or "dual purpose vehicle" which have the same speed limts as cars while "normal" vans have a restriction of 50mph on single carriageway roads....hello speed limit observing couriers.


REgards Neil

Two of these pick-up trucks have the same speed limits as a car, one of them doesn't. Can you tell which is which ? :)

Image
I would say the middle one with the tank in the load space taking it over the 3.5 tonne limit? :)
Correct answer, but not for the reason given :-D

My understanding is that the middle single cab Isuzu is classed as a Light Commercial Vehicle because - although it falls within the 2040kg limit for dual purpose vehicles - it can't be classed as a dual purpose vehicle as it only has a single cab AND it's only 2 wheel drive. The blue Ford Ranger CAN be classed as a dual purpose vehicle because it both falls within the 2040kg limit AND it has four wheel drive. The double cab Isuzu CAN be classed as a dual purpose vehicle because it has a second row of seats and doors AND it falls within the 2040kg limit. A similar looking double cab Ford Ranger couldn't be classed as a dual purpose vehicle because it falls outside the 2040kg limit.
Dual purpose vehicles align with car speed limits, whereas Light Commercial Vehicles have the slower limits.

Clear as mud, innit ? :lol:

I do wonder what sort of roads police officer knows the ins and outs of the peculiarities of dual purpose vs LCV pick-up trucks. Probably one that's a larf to meet at parties 8-[
Do ANPR equipped police cars have the ability to show unladen weights of the vehicles in question, or would it take a phone call for the police officer to obtain that info ?
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mickthemaverick
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by mickthemaverick »

bobins wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 12:04

Do ANPR equipped police cars have the ability to show unladen weights of the vehicles in question, or would it take a phone call for the police officer to obtain that info ?
I believe the ANPR system does include the DVLA'a data on the vehicle which includes 'Taxation class' That I believe will specify if a vehicle is a light commercial or not? :)
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Rp0thejester
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Re: Speed Limits

Post by Rp0thejester »

NewcastleFalcon wrote:
20 Jul 2022, 08:51
This should be up to date. Its from the horses mouth, Gov.uk

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Not sure that many HGV drivers on the single carriageway routes A697/A68 and single carriageway stretches of the A1 through Northumberland and over the border observe the 50 mph English Side or 40 mph Scottish side, other than times where known speed cameras exist.

Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in Scotland 40 mph
Goods vehicles (more than 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight) in England and Wales 50 mph

The other odd ball in that list is the "Car Derived Van" or "dual purpose vehicle" which have the same speed limts as cars while "normal" vans have a restriction of 50mph on single carriageway roads....hello speed limit observing couriers.

These days driving professionally as part of your job, your employers and fleet managers have access to a wealth of "management data" from the vehicles, monitoring how their vehicles are being driven and whether speed limits are being consistently exceeded. They maybe have a duty of care with the information they have to take action to prevent habitual speeding, and not just abrogate responsibility for fines and points when caught to the individual driver.

REgards Neil
I'm assuming National Express coaches are 11.999 metres long, never seen one doing less than 70mph.