B9 Berlingo ETG Gearbox Actuator Leak - Worry or not?

[NotAnInterestingName]

Just looking under the bonnet, honestly looking properly for the first time in years I must admit. Saw the top of the undertray looks sticky, pretty sure I've traced it back to the top of the gearbox actuator (it's the 6-speed ETG robotised gearbox). Here's a photo of the thing...

It looks like it's definitely been leaking for a long time from the look of all the muck that's stuck to it. Here's a listing for a sample of what looks like a similar unit, showing what it should look like (it should be white!)...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255591694841

I managed to tip the camera upwards, all looks dry above it...

My knowledge is pretty near zero. I'm guessing that this is some kind of hydraulic fluid, possibly leaking from the rubber hose although it's hard to tell. Is that bigger round lump next to the hose some kind of automatic air vent? I'm assuming that spewing goo out is not expected behaviour!

It's going in the garage for an oil change soon anyway, I'm going to ask them to have a look. Just wanting to get ideas of likely causes and cures beforehand, and hopefully avoid paying Citroen a grand or so.

All ideas appreciated!

[NotAnInterestingName]

Looking at what I'm calling the air vent, I don't think it would be gooey if the hose was leaking, as it wouldn't run uphill up it. So that vent must be the culprit.

Could this be as simple as just unscrewing the old one and fitting a new one? Depending on whether it's pressurised when not running. I'm assuming some fluid somewhere will need a change or top up too.

[NotAnInterestingName]

If that valve isn't available as a separate part then I'm wondering if I could transplant it from a scrap one, e.g. this...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/394013529556

[NotAnInterestingName]

Hopefully this is the answer to my prayers...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162633969760

Seems very hard to find, I've ordered but delivery is 1 month+ from Latvia. Hopefully it won't pack in before then, will see if I can wipe the tank clean enough to check the fluid level.

Kind of ironic that we traded in our least reliable car ever, a Fiat, for the Berlingo years ago. Now the one failure on the Berlingo turns out to be a Fiat part! But I can cope with £22 if that's the issue.

[NotAnInterestingName]

Apologies for waffling away to myself, hopefully this may be useful to someone else one day.

Looking through the grot in my original photo, it looks to me like the fluid level may be as shown by the orange arrows I've added...

If so then is it possible that there's nothing wrong with it and it was just overfilled when new? Alternatively is it possible that some other nasty failure is causing there to be an apparent excess of fluid?

We've owned this from new (7.5 years ago) and it's only had routine servicing, so it shouldn't have been messed with before.

I'll add that it works perfectly, and always has since new.

[GiveMeABreak]

Be very careful, the actuators are pressurised and checking the hydraulic oil on this is done with the system first depressurised! After it has been depressurised using diagbox, then the oil level can be checked and filled to within the marks if required. Then the system is re-pressurised, again using the diagnostic tool.

[NotAnInterestingName]

Thanks! That would explain the label with a picture of a hand crossed out then.

Perhaps I should get a syringe or similar and change the fluid at the same time, it would seem like an opportunity missed otherwise. It has approaching 80k miles, so it's probably a sensible time to do it.

[GiveMeABreak]

The operating pressure is 37 BAR (circa 536 PSI).

After depressurising with Diagbox, checking and topping up oil level the system is then re-pressurised, but will also require the system to be bled using the diagnostic tool. This operates the gearbox and clutch actuators to bleed air out the system.

• Connect the diagnostic equipment to the vehicle’s diagnostic socket.
• Switch on the ignition.

Select in the diagnostic tool menu:

• The vehicle
• The RPO no.
• Perform the global test.
• Using the diagnostic equipment select: Bleeding the hydraulic circuit.
• The diagnostic tool pressurises the piloting actuator hydraulic circuit, changing through all the gears in order to force air out of the circuit.

[NotAnInterestingName]

[*]The diagnostic tool pressurises the piloting actuator hydraulic circuit, changing through all the gears in order to force air out of the circuit.[/list]

Blimey. Is this with the engine running or just with the ignition electrics switched on? Can it be done on a driveway or does it need the front wheels to be spinning in the air? I'm guessing, does it hold the clutch open while doing it?

Are you sure this plastic header tank is part of the pressurised system? It looks like a plastic sandwich box with a pop bottle top and skinny rubber hose connected, not to my eye the sort of thing that could take a whopping 37 BAR.

[NotAnInterestingName]

This thread suggests it's just atmospheric pressure...

http://c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum ... php?232213

You don't have to worry about pressuring the system as you're just draining and refilling the header tank. I left a wee bit of fluid in the tank just to make sure no air got in the line.

I know this is EGS but hopefully the same applies, it looks like the same part.

But I realise that this wouldn't entail changing the fluid. I can't see how it could have much spare space for clearing out the system - does the tank need to be emptied before doing this?

I think I may just try cautiously opening that bottle top with gloves and see what happens. Give it all a good wipe down first, then put new top on and keep an eye on it. It works fine, so I'll keep away from what I don't understand.

It's getting an oil change next week at the garage, I've asked them to clean up the undertray and surroundings as an extra job.

[GiveMeABreak]

That will be a different version to the OP. they do vary.

The fluid level is checked with the system depressurised in order to allow the fluid to be returned from the system and the correct levels to be ascertained from the markings. If you tried to fill it up without doing this, then you will overfill the system and during normal operation, this can lead to over pressurising if there is nowhere for the excess fluid to return to. The reservoir itself is not pressurised, but the system itself is (pressure accumulator, actuator).

There are different incarnations of the system, and I have mentioned specifically what the official procedure is for the OPs vehicle. This is why we ask for the VIN so we know exactly which system we are dealing with. It does not follow that what is specific to one system is the same for another vehicle that may have a different version.

As for the procedure, it is guided and provided instructions, but likely that the engine is not running whilst the actuators are operated by the diagnostic tool. It is just to operate and in so doing to bleed the system.

[NotAnInterestingName]

Thanks, super useful info as ever.

I think I'll "know my limits" and just cautiously change the cap, after it's not been run for a day or two. The level looks OK, approaching the top when I looked after it hadn't run for ages.

It's going for an oil change at the local garage next week, I'll ask them to have a look and see if they agree it's been weeping from the cap, have also said they'll give it a clean-up.

It looks to me like an automatic air valve, designed to let out air but not fluid. I know from messing about with boilers that have similar that they're prone to sticking open - they burp out some air, a bit of muck gets in and they never close again. That's my current theory, based on looking and hoping for an easy fix. Hopefully the muck hasn't got inside it, will have a really good look once I get the cap off.

It's also possible that it just got too much fluid at the factory, I guess these things can happen.

Will see what develops, and update this thread in case any of this info is ever useful to anyone else with similar issues.

[NotAnInterestingName]

Well I put it in the garage for the oil change, asked them to clean up the spill and have a look.
I was quite pleased to hear him (unprompted) suggest my theory that it was just too full from new. It's still on the max line.
I bought the replacement cap though. I swapped it myself, after jacking up, removing the wheel and wheelarch liner.
I can confirm that the header tank is just ambient pressure, just a little hiss like a bottle of pop when I opened it perhaps half an hour after running it. The original one wasn't very tight, this may have been the issue - perhaps it was sealed unless cold and/or was being lobbed around a corner. It's now as tight as a hand can turn a bottle top, I don't know how many Nm that is but I'm happy it's sealed.
So... it's all nice and clean now, so at least I can see if it leaks again. For all I know that mess might have happened years ago and never again since.
The top does have a vent hole sticking out of the side of its top, but it's hard to make sense of really. It looks like the rubber washer inside it seals it completely, but it may have some kind of hidden magic hole or slot within it that I couldn't see, it's a weird shape, kind of like a bowler hat.

[RichardW]

If it's at max with the system pressurised, then it's overfilled. The bleeding / config is done without the engine running, you need to use a backup supply to keep the voltage up (e.g. jump it off a running car).

[NotAnInterestingName]

It's at max when all off and not running, after leaving it to settle. But that's after it's spewed a fair amount all over the place at some point in the last 8 years. Hopefully that just proves it was over-filled at the factory and it isn't an indication of some horrible fault that's about to show up.

I'm going to leave it alone now, will have another look in a few months to see if it's leaked again. If not then I'll call it job done. It's always worked perfectly, no issues at all. We've had it from new and it's only ever been driven gently, so hopefully the fluid hasn't had a hard life, approaching 80k miles now. I'm thinking there's probably more risk in changing it than just leaving it alone.

The ETG seemed to be the point at which the robo-manual gearbox was perfected, but this was only a few years before they swapped to the EAT gearboxes and gave up with them. We have one of each variety in our little fleet of two. The EAT in the DS5 is definitely smoother, but there's not that much in it. The ETG is still lovely to drive, vastly preferable to a manual.