C5 X7 no start (or only runs for fraction of a second)

[MattBLancs]

Self tappers will do. Extra one as a slight crack in the plastic was being pulled open a touch with three equispaced screws

[MattBLancs]

Quick re-prime, then start attempted - start-stop cough remains.

Starter motor off next

Matt

[Rp0thejester]

I don't think it's the starter motor, If it was it wouldn't start at all. Sounds like a fuel or air problem. Any engine will start and run if got fuel and air, maybe roughly but will still run.

[MattBLancs]

I'm not hugely convinced either, but others reported a slow starter was enough to give them starting issues. On the 2.2 it's front of the block and relatively easy to get at. So I'll get it off clean out and regrease it.

The hypothesis that starter speed isn't enough (but jolted into life with lots of revs by use of easy-start is enough) does align with my symptoms so I can't prove its not the case for me.

It doesn't "seem" too slow turning over, to me - though I've not had a play with my mechanical tacho yet.

Have checked all engine bay fuel pipe connections and all seems ok. No obvious stream of bubbles on the clear pipe section post priming bulb. So doesn't seem like it is taking on air on route from the tank.

Matt

[Rp0thejester]

By slow starter do they mean the number of teeth on the cog as in to few, after replacement? Or just starter starting to pack up?

[MattBLancs]

Just took it to mean "only able to rotate the engine slowly" (and seemingly too slowly for it to then fire up)

As above mine doesn't seem ridiculously slow - so at present I am still doubtful it'll cure it (but will give it a try. Not a new starter off but a clean up and regrease of the current unit)

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Starter motor off tonight (rainy tomorrow so make hay whilst the sun shines) will give that a bit of a refurb / clean the commutator, regrease etc tomorrow.

The muck is same sort of consistency as coffee grounds

Quoting myself, have seen a recent post talking about "diesel bug", then some googling on my part and here:

Noticeable coffee like sediments in the filters

https://www.octane.uk.com/diesel-bugs-biofuel

I've got a sinking feeling that might be my problem. And a full tank - now a fairly valuable commodity! - full of the horrible stuff. Need to have a think what I might do to get it sorted. Will read up on biocide treatments, but from what I've read so far it's not "pour in the tank and the stuff vanishes" (i.e. "dead coffee grounds" will still need to be removed somehow!)

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Commutator, before

Commutator, after (800 grit wet and dry, pillar drill)

Brushes, about 50% worn

Pulled back out the way for reassembly

All phosphor bronze bushes cleaned and regreased. Quick paint job. Electrical contacts cleaned. Reassembled.

Time to put it back on the car.

Matt

[Rp0thejester]

I'm glad you posted those pics, I've still got my old starter I replaced a few weeks ago. might take apart and see what the issue was. And yeah the 2.2s have them in an easy DIY spot to replace.

[MattBLancs]

Not a problem. If want any more info on how it comes apart, how get back together, just give me a shout.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Spot the non-deliberate mistake!

Should be:

180° wrong on the solenoid

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Have ordered some biocide (Wyns, from Halfords - fair bit cheaper than other sources (Eurocarparts, etc)) new fuel filters on order too.

Accumulated lots of fuel cans ready for decanting. Need to sort how I'm going to filter out the lumps - that's next weekend's entertainment sorted

Watched lots of YouTube of sailing boat fuel tanks being drained and then tank walls needing scrubbing clean. So have a sense of the task that lays ahead.

Little steps forward.

Matt

Not tried the "refreshed" starter motor yet (battery still disconnected at present)

[MattBLancs]

Starter back on the car, as above. Maybe turning over a tiny fraction quicker but no change in actually starting and running sadly.

Best part of 60 litres pumped out (Lidl battery driven transfer pump works very well) Some via filler neck, most via fuel sender hole. Getting a dab hand at tapping that plastic ring around and have made a "special tool" to assist with that (6 inch nail, end smushed wider with big hammer, cut off straight to give akin to a cold chisel / flat screwdriver but even more blunt business end. (approx 1.5mm flat face on the driving end) couple of shallow bends to make it easier to drive at the right approach angle.

Not masses of muck drawn up by the pump. Tank still to be cleaned out internally (as best I can reach) but somewhat sinking feeling that it isn't severe enough to be the underlying cause of my issues. My son wasn't so well this afternoon so "playing with the car" on hold and less progress that expected. (He's fine says Royal Preston 's finest)

New fuel filter to go on, will cut the old casing up and see what that reveals too.

I think Diagbox can graph values, will try playing with that a see if can tell me what fuel pressure sensor thinks is going on. Out most of the day tomorrow though. Slow progress.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Ok, back to this problem.

Tank cleaned out - no significant muck found inside. So think only a small cluster / colony / lump / collective noun TBC of the diesel bug in the fuel pickup only.

Some muck sailing past during the priming (visible in the clear pipe between priming bulb and filter) so will change that today. Also going to have a good go at the priming - read the procedure involving a "three way pipe" which I don't have.


Diagbox investigations when cranking over. The readings are sort of limited by the refresh rate, but suggests:
- Turns over about 160-220 rpm which seems ok.one value around 320rpm. Think range of values is just refresh rate driven. Recording a video of the laptop running Diagbox, then using the phone's "slow motion" mode to have a chance of catching the values.
- one of the "coughs" of momentarily running logged as around 850rpm.
- camshaft synchronisation changes from "not synchronised" to "synchronised" when turning over. So think suggests cam and camshaft position sensor both happy.

Matt

[MattBLancs]

Fuel filter replacement completed. Pumping primer till hands dropping off completed

Here there were bubbles, but finally none

(None) starting performance= unchanged.

Old fuel filter cut open, no significant diesel bug present.

Frustrating.
Matt