New C5 owner with a few questions already

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aerodynamica
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Pipe 1 looks like the pressure feed from the pump and pipe 2 looks like it is the return of fluid to the pump.
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bobins
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by bobins »

aerodynamica wrote:
12 Dec 2021, 22:22
Do we know anything about these pipes? are these the pressure feed and return to the steering pinion? I wonder if they can be remade. I replaced the front L and R 10mm suspension pipes for the xantia and apart from the end union nuts being broken the full length, 10mm steel pipe and crimped flex sections is similar to these. I wonder if bits can be spliced together. If the pressure used isn't as high as in the suspension for example.

Ah, who knows. I wonder if new steel sections could be brazen in or something.

Cripes, I wonder if there are any of these pipes in breakers.
I have both pipes sitting in my shed if you need further info on them.
Pipe '2' can be split at point '11' so only half needs to be replaced.
Pipe '2' went through various incarnations - the 'S' bends seemed to come and go with successive part numbers - I don't think it made a great difference in the end as to whether you got the 'S' bends or not. It might make a difference under technical testing, but I'm willing to bet there are numerous C5s out there with the 'wrong' pipes fitted and they haven't yet crashed and burned :wink:

There are ongoing issues with second hand or refitted pipes causing leaks where they clamp into the steering pinion housing. Some people get lucky with them and they seal up again, but most don't. They should realistically be regarded as single use. They can probably be made to seal good again on re-use, but you might need to get creative with the 'O' rings you use and possibly shimming the flared part of the pipe so it has a nice comfy tight seating in the pinion housing.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Ah that's good info (although bad news!) Thanks.

Re. the pipe end sealing at the pinion valve, I wish they'd retained the old citroen style pipe unions. They were great and really forgiving for re sealing sometimes even reusing a pipe seal...

Well I'd rather fing a good second had pipe and just treat and protect the metal but the remanufacture option isn't impossible but might not be practical..
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KennyW
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by KennyW »

Graeme,
When you remove it, it may worth going to a hydraulic pipe fitters like Proteck to see if they can make, copy or have suitable fittings.

I thought it would be good to have a similar set up as the Xantia

Kenny

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Last edited by KennyW on 14 Dec 2021, 00:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Hi Kenny, yes I was thinking of that. Initially I'm just treating the surface with rust converter and when I return to the car on Friday it's getting zinc primer and finally something thick put on top a few days later.

I cant remove it until it fails but would be good to have a spare to copy. I just asked two different breakers if the pipe was available off two C5s being broken but "sorry, no pipes" was the response..
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by KennyW »

Yes, they're like hen's teeth to get. I've been lucky and mine have seal with new seals which were slightly over sized. It's the usual problem mixing of different metals causing corrosion.
Much talk about the seals on several thread including my own re rack replacement.

Kenny

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aerodynamica
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
12 Dec 2021, 21:27
Let me know which one - BUT:

Image

Items (1) & (2) are no longer available Graeme.

Edit: Corrected item (1) above as the '0' came out instead of the bracket :roll:
My god it's desperate! I just found a used pipe no. 1 on ebay and after a panicked comparison of the photos to the drawing here, I pounced. It was very expensive for a used part. I've never experienced such a wilderness of spare parts in a car before but the sellers obviously know the demand for this pipe, the wiper LH motor, steering racks and other C5 nastinesses. One positive thing is that in 2018 my car had a new RH suspension strut.... only one though as the date etched in the top of the LH one is ..... 2008 so the factory one. That'll be leaking soon then. Why after 63 years of making their own invention; hydropneumatic suspension, can Citroen not make it properly with the C5? My Xantia and previous 4 CXs, 2 XMs, 3 Xants, 2 BXs and a 1968 D all had very durable hydraulics and only ever seemed to need rubber tubes replaced when they cracked after 25 years.. (ok my first BS had a front strut failure but that was one and the genuine Citroen strut I got was £250 in 1998... that barely gets you a rusty old C5 wiper motor now!)
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

KennyW wrote:
14 Dec 2021, 00:09
Yes, they're like hen's teeth to get. I've been lucky and mine have seal with new seals which were slightly over sized. It's the usual problem mixing of different metals causing corrosion.
Much talk about the seals on several thread including my own re rack replacement.

Kenny

viewtopic.php?t=66453
My word kenny, that was a pain of a problem with yours. I think the front to rear on mine was what the previous owner had replaced earlier this year. They fitted a copper-nickel pipe. I wonder how they made the ends up :? or who made it up.

I also finally ordered spheres today. I can't wait till the end of February from what AEP parts told me so I ordered the 2 rear accumulators and the front middle accumulator. I am certain all 7 spheres are factory fit and they have lasted this long purely because they saucer spheres are supposed to last long. After testing the one front right sphere and finding it is down to 25 bar from 50 I guess they are all going to be down but since the accumulator spheres have a higher pressure (70 front and 52 rear) then they last longer overall but their effects are felt first since they're responsible for the soft ride. I also figured out why the C5 and C6 need the two rear center spheres (which bamboozled me for ages). I think it is because the X7 and C6 were the first hydro citroens to dispense with the trailing arms at the rear that had a quite hefty mechanical advantage over the action of the rear struts and so the rear axle with its greater variation of load can rely on much lower pressure of gas in the spheres than the front because the volume change over load variations is greater. On the X7 the suspension struts are 1:1 movement to the wheels and the variation of load and hence pressure would render the single middle sphere compressed to its maximum earlier. They could have given it much higher initial pressure but then it would be too soft when lightly laden so the use of two spheres that I am sure are just joined together, increases the effective volume of the center accumulator and hence can be given a more effective charge pressure 52 bar. The same single sphere at the rear of a hydractive xantia is 50 bar but only 400cc volume and is very soft. I'm not sure what volume the saucer spheres are but it must be at least 400cc and so two in the middle is at least 800 cc not counting the vol of the strut spheres themselves - probably the car floats on quite a volume of nitrogen. the front axle pressures on a hydractive xantia - 45bar corner and 70 bar accumulator- are far closer to the pressures on the C5 and C6 because it is upright struts on both cars 1:1 ratio of movement. This might explain why the flat rear accumulators on my X7 have a springy, underdamper action but not fully hard - they still have a big volume it's just that it's probably 90% fluid now. Ha am I obsessed with citroen suspension much?
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by KennyW »

Graeme,
I think you could make Xantia flares for a joints and do it in situ.
Never was able to identify the flare type which fits into the hydraulic pump and seals up

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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Ah you mean add a repair section in not make up a full pipe? I have a pipe flare tool for the old citroen pipes. My only concern then would be getting a union seal that fits and is compatible with LDS
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by KennyW »

I’m sure one of the guy’s has left the seals in LDS for a week and no obvious issues

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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Hm, I have the car running, new cambelt, changed LDS, and new auxiliary belt. I now have a question about this. The tensioner pulley was retracted to remove the old belt. The new belt is too slack and squeals for a bit on start up. I can't see any adjustment for the tensioner pulley? I checked the new belt against the old and I'm sure they are identical. Any pointers?
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

I found another thread about the Aux belt on the 2.0 hdi but not sure what's wrong. Looks like it's should tighten with spring tension alone - it is a stiff spring.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Ok it seems to have improved on its own (?) Maybe the spring was sticking?
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Nope! Started this morning and it's squealing away merrily. It settles down after time but something is wrong