New C5 owner with a few questions already

[aerodynamica]

yes

I've began the process of soaking the fixing screws in plus gas. My only concern is for the bolt that is in line with the wheel at an elevated position. This is the one you mentioned needed a big spanner on the weldnut to ensure it doesn't break out the housing. That's fine but my concern is with the threads and how corroded they look - I just can't see this bolt coming out over its length without seriously jamming up in the nut and possibly breaking. I'm going to try and clean the length of exposed threads but access looks difficult. Any advice on that?

All the other fixings appear ok although I'll need a deep socket for the 2 that hold the steering rack itself.

EDIT: sorry kenny, I just read this thread viewtopic.php?t=57734, and it seems the 21 or 22mm nut that the big bolt goes to isn't a weld nut after all? it's just a nut that's not secured once loose I think. I see you got replacement bolts - was this from the dealers?

[KennyW]

I think it was originally welded and protected by a plastic cap !
It is only a partially thread bolt and I was surprised how little mine were rusted considering.
Yes I got new bolts from the dealers as they were not expensive.
When I did the rack the first time I used my impact wrench on these bolts but just ended up turn in their mountings hence why I think they were welded not captive nuts.
Even a little heat on the nut will help and spraying with plusgas or similar. I use the plastic straws which come with WD40 to direct the spray onto the nut
The rack bolts are actually studs which may unscrew with nut still in place but not an issue.

Kenny

[aerodynamica]

Thanks Kenny, cheers. Partially threaded bolts? Hm on mine i see quite a lot of thread protrudes through the but by a good inch or so. It's this length of threading that concerns my because it all has to wind through the nut. I wonder if my subframe has been off before and they replaced it with longer screws. Well I'm see how it is in due course

[aerodynamica]

I have started to refurb and protect the power steering pipe. Here is the state of the used part:

Cleaning the surface rust off with wire brush shows that it is in good condition underneath.

Next 2 layers of zinc primer

I'm going to return and add a protective top coat - ideally something fairly thick but have not decided yet what it'll be. I have a fair amount of brake caliper paint albeit in bright green and I had good results with the flat roof repair paint a few weeks ago but I don't know how compatible that is with the primer. I might try a bit to see if they are happy together and don't react.

I used some of the bright green paint on the replacement front suspension regulator:

I had originally painted this in gold caliper paint but was not happy with the coverage and felt it would just corrode again. The green is so much thicker and I think it will protect the unit from the heavy corrosion in future.

I really hope this can protect this notorious power steering pipe and that it will not have to be replaced again...

[aerodynamica]

Finally have the replacement rack fitted, the reconditioned PAS pipe fitted and most excitingly (for me) finally have the front suspension regulator changed! It is impossible to change over without lowering the front subframe.

Anyway, a few snaps of the old rack:

you can see the corrosion here and there but although the usual pinion valve seal leak is happening, the rusty shaft looked to me to be not as bad as others I've seen posted on here.. I suspect actually this rack was already a replacement but no proof.

After derusting and zinc primer to the PAS pipe I returned and painted it with 2 layers of caliper paint. Bright green as before. I didn't take a picture of the painted pipe but you can see it now in position here:

The bright green might seem a bit crazy and really it's because I happen to have a fair amount of green caliper paint but it also means over time I can see any changes to the surface of the pipe if it starts corroding prematurely again.

More green paint action here! The new front hydractive regulator!
First, here's the original one, rusty, impossibly stuck sphere and the broken mounting bracket.

Longest bar, wire brush, soak in plusgas and it still wouldn't come off! Some idiot also left a full Xantia in the way

Little peek in and the damper valve is identical to the replacement regulator

The new regulator before it went in:

The replacement rack complete with CV gaiter added to surround the pinion valve - idea happily stolen off you guys! I also treated and painted the steel pipes on the rack because I wasn't pleased with the thin, non-primered covering the reconditioner had used.

Held by a cable tie and I didn't touch the unused boss that sticks out the side because it helps keep the gaiter on even if it slightly skews it.

kind of skewed angle of the CV boot but it actually fits through the aperture in the footwell

I really hope this CV gaiter will now make the rack last a lifetime. I was at the Glasgow Power Steering services place to return the old rack for the surcharge and lo and behold there is a C5 up on one of their ramps....

So far so good and the PAS pipe sealed well that the viton O rings were not needed..

Reconditioned regulator seen in place now

A few days now and no leaks and the steering is nice and smooth too

[aerodynamica]

Observations on the state of bits that are removed.

The rusty state of the parts on C5s is a bit alarming at times. After a few days soaking in plus gas and moving the Xantia I got a good swing on the old regulator sphere and FINALLY it came off. I've never experienced such tight spheres as these ever.

finally the sphere came off

Here, you can see how rusty the regulator is. Here, the broken mounting bracket finally removed you can see the reverse side of the unit.

The lump of stuff seen growing between two of the mounting clearance holes is build up of the product of galvanic corrosion. Worse than ever - only seen this before on the Xantia rear brake caliper-to-trailing arm mounting faces. A well known problem. I feel the C5 is full of this kind of thing and it remains to be seen how the PAS pipe lasts out despite all the zinc primer and caliper paint.

The front regulator I had got off ebay and cleaned up and painted is fitted now to the car and of course has a brand new sphere. The old sphere that was attached to it though tested on the sphere tester and has over 50 bar left (from the original 70). The date seen on that sphere was 2008 so it is the same age as my C5. It was now time to test the front sphere from my car to see how it measured. I had kind of expected it might be about the same as it's the same age.

on the sphere tester

And..

25bar

It measured at only 25 bar!

This is strange given the other 2008 sphere lasting over 13 years to still have 50 bar. I suppose mine had a harder paper round! Just shows the variation in the sphere life even with these saucer spheres.

It's a bit disappointing too because my cunning plan had been to fit the two old front accumulators to the rear where they are specced at 52bar. but with this one being 25 that's not going to happen!

However, with the brand new sphere now fitted to the car with its full 70 bar the ride is noticeably incredible now. I actually considered it to be the best I've experienced before changing any spheres and that had been with a 25 bar middle accumulator! It is now incredible ride! And! the front corner spheres are only 25 bar(meant to be 50) so I hope it becomes off the scale great when they're replaced.

Beginning to derust the regulator

to my surprise the screw for the bleed nipple actually came out (the front unit has this plug, the rear regulator has a bleed nipple here)

Cleaning up well - damper valves out

measuring the damper center hole confirms it's the same as the replacement regulator 1.8mm with '5 - 4' etched on.

a few layers of zinc primer and this regulator will be painted later on..

The plan for this unit is to replace the rear regulator that's rustier than my piano skills, with this cleaned-up front. The core unit is identical but the rear has a bleed nipple, an alloy block shape manifold to fit the two rear accumulators - this is removeable, and possibly has different damper valves for the rear but not confirmed and don't have any data on this. It is easy enough to remove the rear damper valves and fit them to this regulator for the purpose but that's all for the future.

So far, so good although the C5 is becoming like one of my old classic Citroen projects... does that make the X7 a classic now? that it's needing its bits restored? I wonder!

[aerodynamica]

And there's more!

with the replacement regulator improving and heading to be fitted at the rear, the 2 rear suspension pipes to each strut are just as corroded as the rear regulator. here's a snap of how they were before Christmas:

The state of the rear regulator and pipes

And the pipes look so bad that I was too scared to touch them. I've now learned from seeing the cut remnant of pipe on the replacement front regulator (why do breakers always have to cut pipes!) that the pipe walls are quite thick so even though very rusty I think they'll hold out.

Anyway, I have 2 replacement R&L rear pipes all the way from Lithuania and they're a million times better that the state of the ones on the car but still, they got the full bare metal treatment:

not too rusty - a little pitted

Usual treatment - layers of zinc primer

Usual treatment - layers of zinc primer

this is the arrangement - nicked off the C6 forum

So these are currently waiting on a good couple of layers of paint. Likely more of the green caliper paint although I might just paint them black hammerite. Anything to try and make them last!

And that is where I am now - car is going very well apart from the occasional hiccup with the hifi/Satnav

[aerodynamica]

Comparing the rusty bits to the equivalent parts from the Xantia: The C5 is 13 years old and the Xantia 28 yet the difference is stark!

28 year old rear Hydractive 2 Regulator

28 year old PAS pipe

28 year old steering rack! (ok, new rods fitted)

C5 equivalent bits:

C5 13 year old rotten rack

C5 13 year old rotten front hydractive 3+ regulator. PAS rotted pipe on bench behind

..is it possible the Xantia's hardware is better made? I'm maybe being unfair to the C5 because I don't know the environment each car lived in each life. the C5 was registered in Newcastle and apparently lived there until it came here in the last 3 years. The Xantia lived in Essex the first 22 years then South Wales for less than a year then up here the last 5 years. Well who knows really just surprising how rusty some isolated C5 parts are.. not even mentioning the steering shaft thing!

[Gibbo2286]

I reckon your C5 has been waded through saltwater. Maybe a beachcomber.

[GiveMeABreak]

It's not difficult as the rear centres on the X7 are not protected one bit - completely exposed to the elements. Ideally the whole assembly needs coating in bitumen from new.

[aerodynamica]

It's not difficult as the rear centres on the X7 are not protected one bit - completely exposed to the elements. Ideally the whole assembly needs coating in bitumen from new.

But what about the front one! it was like a sea mine...



Ironically, if you look at the outgoing steering rack the shaft that rusts so badly is actually not bad looking .. seal still failed of course but I expected it to be way worse than that.

[KennyW]

Well done Graeme, how well did the sub frame removal go, any awkward moments.

With the frame off did you inspect the wishbones, rubber mounting bushes etc.

Kenny

[aerodynamica]

Well done Graeme, how well did the sub frame removal go, any awkward moments.

With the frame off did you inspect the wishbones, rubber mounting bushes etc.

Kenny

Hiya Kenny, thanks but I'm going to confess that I had booked it in to a garage for the work. Most unlike me but I've just had too much on lately and my own workspace is too small to deal with any problems with those two middle subframe screws. I can't do the work on the drive because it's too steep (also it's winter )

But I did prepare all the bits as seen. The garage did the work but not before wrecking the refurbished steering rack! Apparently the rack casting cracked when they wound the long stud in to the threaded hole and it shattered.....also waited 3 days before they told me! And it was me who called them too. They replaced the rack with one they sourced and to be fair it looks better than the refurb one. They also did fit it with my CV boot over the pinion valve so I'll give them credit for that.

There are however 2 new problems that have emerged upon return of the car. Firstly, when you turn off the engine there's a distinct rattle as the engine stops. Not had a chance to investigate but I suspect they've not reattached the exhaust properly (or broken the hanger as it was rusty and I'd wondered how I was going to tackle it myself).. the second is that there's now something wrong with the front suspension. When you press UP once to go to intermediate height, the rear goes to that height but the front goes to maximum and the display never shows that it has reached intermediate. If you then put it on maximum height the rear goes to maximum and the front stays at maximum (it was already there) and again the display doesn't say it has reached max. In fact the pump motor continues to run and run until the relay times out. After it cools off it starts going again. It's as if there's some calibration of the front height sensor that's been knocked out. Returning to normal height is fine. The self leveling works fine too. So I'm not sure what's wrong. I'll stick the diagnostic on it to see if I can find anything amiss. They've also overfilled the LDS because at normal height you can see the LDS level in the filler. And people wonder why I tend to do all my own work.....

[KennyW]

Graeme,
Great effort, re suspension height firstly remove the excess LDS with a syringe or vaccum pump. Using Diagbox lower suspension to lowest level follow the instructions on screen. If still over the marks remove excess.
Next raise and lower suspension several times then slowly move steering rack from full lock to full lock, do NOT hold at full lock,10 times.

Overfilling can cause all sorts of problems.

See if this cures the height issue.

Otherwise it will require the heights check and adjusted according Citroen's guide. I think Marc has this in the technical area.

I've got to check mine as the rear has risen a little and I believe my front is slightly high. Just waiting on better weather.

C5 X7 Hydractive Suspension, 4 Cylinder Vehicles only - Height Measurement Checking Procedure
Kenny

[GiveMeABreak]

I've just provided a guide for the 4 cylinder C5 X7's in the Resources Section and amended your post with the correct link Kenny.