New C5 owner with a few questions already

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

It's all on my illustrated post here Graeme:

viewtopic.php?p=602312#p602312
aerodynamica
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

GiveMeABreak wrote:
06 Dec 2021, 22:53
It's all on my illustrated post here Graeme:

viewtopic.php?p=602312#p602312
That's brilliant Marc thanks, exactly what I'm looking for.

I missed that thread because of the title. I thought "well in not going to be exploding the LDS tank" ha,
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

I was looking at the BSI reset steps and just want to clarify if all of the steps must be followed any time you're performing the reset? E.g do I really have to press the key remote every time? And what's the reason for turning on the sidelights?
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Yes, do follow the (relevant) steps. Some may not be applicable like keyless entry for your car which are clearly identified for those vehicles.

Timings are essential as we are dealing with computer networks and multiple ECUs (your vehicle may have in excess of 20), as are the instructions not to open the doors or push switches where specified otherwise some of the ECUs will be triggered and wake up the vehicle networks - which will negate the whole operation.

Disconnecting the battery is essential if depressurising as the suspension ECU can trigger height correction without the car running.

The pressing of the key remote part is for resynchronising the Fob with the immobiliser. This is sometimes necessary and is part of the procedure to ensure the fobs work afterwards and the engine will start.

The switching on of the sidelights part is not part of the actual procedure, but is there to help with any voltage spikes on reconnection.

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Thanks Marc, I had the opportunity today to replace the driver side window motor with a brand new one. I also followed the reset steps and all went well with the remote working fine too...

..too bad the new wiper motor made no difference 😭
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

The best thing you can do is to get Diagbox onto the vehicle and it should report the relevant fault to identify the issue. Pop the code up here if you can. Note that generic OBD II readers can't always read the manufacturer-specific codes, so may not pick up the wiper ECUs
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Yea, it couldn't read them first time but I assumed it was due to the fried ECU. It is a Lexia 3 - is that the type they can't read all codes?
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

A 'Lexia kit' is the common name for the VCI (the Vehicle Communications Interface hardware and cables) and the software (Diagbox) which requires a suitable laptop to run on and loads of patience to set up.

Have a look at our list of members who have offered Lexia / Peugeot Planet / Diagbox Diagnostics help if you haven't already seen it - link below:

At the end of the list is a link to a Google Map, showing the geographic locations of members and details. Just use the Private Message or Email links on the member's profile to contact anyone suitable.

List of Lexia / Diagbox Owners with Kits Offering Help

Bear in mind, although we update the list as often as we can, not all members are active on the Forum all the time, so it may take a while for a reply.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Thanks, well I had a go once more with the diagnostic reader and this is the set up, see pic attached. It's likely the generic type and the citroen software runs in a virtual PC but it does read and communicate with the car after entering the ORGA. There are several faults recorded but only a couple have an actual code number.

Pic attached shows the set up, the second pic shows that first time it reads the wipers' ecu(s) and states no fault...... then after trying to read the wipers for details it says no comms to the ecus and returning to the global scan shows no coms and dashes for fault - third pic.

3 photos might appear in the wrong order but you get the idea
Attachments
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Last edited by aerodynamica on 07 Dec 2021, 18:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

few more screens:

First one shows a fault in both door mirrors - some short. This code wouldn't clear. The mirrors do seem to both work.

Second is the BSI faults, I don't know but perhaps these are historic faults that were never cleared?

Third shows the info about the rear height sensor fault. This I did clear and it seemed to work.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by GiveMeABreak »

Hmm, looks like you have an older stand alone version of Lexia running. Ideally the C5 X7 needs the later software (Diagbox) which is for later vehicles circa 2008 onwards as Lexia won't have any updates since it was superseded.

There are some known ghost faults that appear with the suspension system as a result of interrogating the Suspension and ESP ECUs which can be ignored - but I can't advise on these as Lexia isn't reporting the fault codes.

Also the BSI restart can usually be ignored.
AS long as the mirror adjustment works ignore that for now too.
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Consider them ignored!
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

So I had the opportunity to fit the brand new driver side wiper motor today in the hope that the fault was actually caused by the existing motor even though looking at it showed it was made in 2017 and so was likely a previous replacement. I'd cleaned up the LH side motor and resealed it the other day and refitting saw the wipers work for 20 mins and then go back to their old ways and with no diagnostic info I turned to the driver side motor. A supplier here in Glasgow actually had one in stock so I could get it immediately. The new one fitted now alongside the attempted repaird LH one saw absolutely nothing and they still don't work even for a minute. So if the new RH motor is to be considered as 'good' then surely the LH motor truly is the duff one after all. Certainly the ECU inside had suffered water damage. Yes, LHS motors are on 6+ month back order so good luck to all of us.... I then turned my attention to the original RH motor I'd just replaced with new. It was 2017 build according to the Valeo label but even so, was quite corroded on the outer alloy casting at the lower point. I decided to take off the cover and look at the ECU. It showed to be absolutely pristine inside and no sign of water ingress at all.
20211207_131434.jpg
The beginning of some corrosion of the thin alloy casing at the corner and part where the seal goes behind the actual motor itself (also the area worst affected on the LH unit). I notice the RH motor comes with a rubber flap that covers the top and has a hole for the wiper spindle but the LH one does not. No idea why. I also think the black seal for the ECU cover looks inadequate for the job and you can see this is where the water gets in. They've gone to great lengths to limit the chance of water getting in by using parts that overlap in the 'downward' direction that is to say, 'umbrella' shape direction but none of them look long. The screws to hold the ECU cover have a raised boss around them presumably for keeping water off the screws themselves which don't have any sealing - fit alone seals. The wiper spindle is an obvious potenial water ingress point but the wiper arm partly covers it in the same umbrella manner. There is a drain hole too in the lever part of the unit that's under a plastic cover. The drain hole, incredibly exits on top of the multi plug connector. I'd say water would stay out if the water fell conveniently only by gravity but surely at 70 in the rain the turbulence around the area would see water come at it from many directions. I think only adding more outer sealing like gasket sealant or some kind of rubberised paint to cover the lot.
Later I had a brain wave! maybe the ECU from the 2017 RH motor could be removed and fitted in the LH unit! I had a look after all and it was pristine and looked to be identical and then I realised it is fitted in an alloy cover that is the mirror image of the other side! Argh nice idea for 2 seconds.... ugh, why on earth create two identical but mirrored ECU boards? if they're functionally identical surely one board could be used in each side? think of the cost saving! Maybe they could have spent the money saved in making the thing stay dry and not let any moisture in... I do wonder if the ECU itself is a component shared on other two motor wipers even where the rest of the assembly differs such as the C6 and Peugeot 408 and DS5..
I'm considering keeping the rubber flap from the spare RH motor and fitting it to any good functional LH one I eventually find... But there must be a reason they never fitted it there..?

Also the area underneath each wiper motor is an insulation covered trough that was full of leaves and bits and mush stuff - all very saturated and wet.
20211207_113203.jpg
Looking at the motor mounting position the lower edge of the ECU cover plate (that also seems to serve as a heat sink) is very close to this damp surface and if that gunge was damp for weeks on end in winter it's no surprise that moisture diffuses through the tiny rubber seal. It might even be immersed in it but I didn't confirm that. The whole area looks like it lacks proper drainage and air flow so it's like the humid air around a swamp. There's a large hollow looking area actually between the two motors under the windscreen - a nice efficient wiper linkage could have gone there!

Anyway, still no wipers and I have ordered a LH one from a breaker that is 'tested' well, that remains to be seen if it works... It's incredible thinking about the 28 year old single wiper motor in my Xantia that still works and these two electronically operated motors that do no better a job so far as I can see but have a failure mode that helps noone, can't be tested or parts - swapped, can't knowingly be tricked to work until new parts arrive (was half thinking it might be possible to rig it up to run only one wiper but the return signal needed is the issue. O well, nothing I can do until parts arrive. I have 5 litres of LDS to change and a timing belt kit and I can't do this stuff until the car is in the workshop 20 miles away. Possible trip when it's dry! O, it's to rain all week......
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by aerodynamica »

Better pic of the 'good' wiper ECU. It's perfect - no idea when it had been fitted to the car but obviously less than 4 years ago if the motor is 2017 build.
20211207_131418.jpg
Can see the beginning of corrosion at the top right of the picture. Can actually see it's also in the inside already. The thinness of the alloy here doesn't look like it would help. Technically when fitted in the car this 'worst' corner is at the rear but at the top so it's again, odd that they seem to corrode there first on both motors I've looked at. The two pins on the board in that region are where the board connects to the motor and the little transistors on the board between those pins are in line with the magnet on the motor shaft probably detecting revolutions. Anyway I'm going to stop thinking about this now!
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Re: New C5 owner with a few questions already

Post by jamescarruthers »

aerodynamica wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 12:36
jamescarruthers wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 11:01
Hey Graeme,

Nice to hear from you again. Hope you enjoy your C5 (X7 or Mk. 2?), they look like a nice car.

Did you see yours and mine old BX A966 XRL had the front cover and a few pages in a classic car magazine recently? I didn’t buy a copy and have forgotten the name of the mag— long story!

I’ve got my C6 in at Pleiades for a sphere regas; they can do C5 saucer sphere too. They are built without the top recharge point but Pleiades add them. Just incase you fancy a cheaper option than replacing all the sphere.
Hiya James, I didn't spot the BX but it is quite a nice one now that Phil had it repainted etc.

Yes, the C5 is an X7 so has two spheres per rear wheel. I think I'll source the two 'soft' spheres alone initially because they're the only ones that 'seem' slightly off just now. Long term project 😉

The more pressing issue is replacing the LH wiper motor, changing the timing belt and friends and beginning the transmission fluid changing process (that i understand takes 3 months 😄)
I seem to remember reading on the C6 forum (surely the same wiper system) that a new motor needs to be set up using Lexia or Diagbox. Could that help fix it after having the motors off for a clean?

aerodynamica wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 12:42
Ha, James I see you still have your 480!
I was partly on the look out for a C6 but I just can't get into cars without proper hatchbacks 😟 but the C6 interior looks divine- I love the centre console and gearstick gate. I hope you get on well with it.

It's funny, even with suspect rear spheres, the C5 rides much better than my Xantia TD VSX that has all new spheres, modified height corrector linkages with rose joints replacing the plastic link and ceramic bearings for the levers, rear arm bearings, post 1999 hydractive regulators, new front arm bushings, drop links, anti roll bar bushings, front wheel bearings, ball joints... the LOT! So, what can I say!
Yes, I do still have a 480, although have been through a few of them since we last met-- down to x1 now which was rescued after 20 years sitting in a garage and put back on the road.
as found
as found
back on original reg, painted, restored, etc.
back on original reg, painted, restored, etc.
Funny how you find the C5 better than the Xantia, especially with that phenomenal bit of work and your subtle upgrades to joints and bearings. I thought they were supposed to be worse riding from what I've read on here but I guess its all subjective. Glad you are happy with it anyway. My sister has a Mk. 1 C5 and that feels lovely to be in.

Talking of subjective, although I love the C6 and have had two of them, it is actually the interior that I find the least appealing and especially the centre console with its wall of buttons and no bloody dial to change the temperature-- although climate control takes care of most of it, I often have to go up/down a few degrees. They look nicer inside the beige I think, my black one feels a bit coffin like sometimes. The boot is pretty small compared to the size of the car so you'd probably be disappointed in this especially if you like a spacious hatchback.
C6
C6
Anyway, enough thread derailment, back to your lovely C5... post some pics, I'm sure people would love to admire it