Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Daft question, but how do I release the passenger BSI fuse box? Because the passenger door is still deadlocked it's difficult to get to the under glove box fuses/BSI to see what's going on! :x It looks like the Mk2 is fitted in a different way to the Mk1.



i
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

All of them are a pain in the a$$ to get to. There are the white catches at the front and clips on either side, on the BSI! The BSI is hinged at the back and swings down.
It's optional but I would recommend removing the cover under the passengers side dash, remove the 3 connectors attached to the bottom of the glove box and remove the glove box. The two hinge pins on either side of the glove box door are a pain and yes, you do need to remove the glove box door.

Catch 22. You will need to gain access to the BSI connectors to open the passenger door to gain better access to the BSI connectors!
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

The connectors can be a pain too. They can get stuck. You can use a screwdriver to lever the red locking tab but take your time or you will break the locking tab!
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

wheeler wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 22:12
OK next checks.
Is Fuse 8 in the under bonnect fusebox live (at both sides) all the time?
Fuse 13 in under bonnet fusebox is it ignition switched live at both sides?
28 way grey connector on under bonnet fusebox do pins 19 & 26 have a good earth?
Fuse 8 is live both sides. Fuse 13 is dead both sides. Pins 19 & 26 have good earth.
I'm wrestling with the glove box now - and the glove box is winning. Getting the stays to release from their holes is a black art. :?
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
02 Dec 2021, 22:20
The connectors can be a pain too. They can get stuck. You can use a screwdriver to lever the red locking tab but take your time or you will break the locking tab!
I've got the glove box off now. Once I had prised the bottom right pin out the rest was easier. Looks like once the pins are out I could twist the bottom of the glovebox door towards me and that allowed the lugs on the stays to come away from the facia.
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

Good!
It's down to the earths at pins 6 and 8 of the 16 pin green connector on the BSI. I have a sinking feeling the earths are going to be good and the fault is in the BSI. :(
IF that is the case, I am at a bit of a loss after that. I can only see 2 options.
1) the BSI has an internal problem or
2) it's not "waking up". Or not being woken up.
There are multiple things that should wake the BSI up. Some, like the doors, and the ignition switch, are directly connected to the BSI and others like the radio are on the CAN bus. So I don't think it's the BSI not waking up. Having said that I don't know what electronic process (within the BSI) happen when the BSI wakes up.

For the most part the BSI's seem pretty reliable. The only regular fault is the door lock relays failing. The solenoids in the locks are a big inductive load and burn the contacts out. So I have nothing for you there. There shouldn't be any corrosion on the pins but $h!t happens!

If the earth connections look OK you could measure the current flowing from the BSI to the earths. Make sure the big 2 pin grey connector is plugged in. Use your meter on current and probe from pin6 OR pin8 across to the corresponding pin on the connector. If you get nothing, then its a power problem if you get something, then something in the electronics has gone bung (and the BSI is not waking up?). DANGER, WARNING!!!!!! Don't forget to set the meter probes BACK to the volts/ohms plug on your meter when you are finished. Or you could blow the a$$ out of a circuit or your meter!! If you knew that..fine.

I may be getting ahead of myself here but you may have to pull the BSI apart and have a visual inspection. Are you up for that? One of the problems with giving advice is that you don't know the skill level of the people posting on here. You have done pretty well so far.

I don't know if you know, but replacing the BSI is not really an option. IF the problem is in the BSI you are better off repairing it. Again, you will have to cross that bridge when you get to it.

If you ask Wheeler very nicely he might be able to provide a diagram for the door locks. We might be able to nut out out how to get the door unlocked now that you have access to the BSI connectors. Disregard what I said before about the connectors for the door locks (previous post) the pin numbers were for the MK1. It's possible the pin outs were changed for the MK2.

If there is anyone still awake and knows anything about circuit diagrams, look at the connections for the ignition switch in both of the above circuit diagrams. I believe they are wrong. I believe lines 2 and 3 should be swapped over. In the current configuration both circuits only get power when the key is turned to start. Sort-of makes sense for 'wheelers circuit' but it means the engine ECU in 'givemeabreak's diagram' only works in 'start'. The switch contacts run counter clockwise. Off, accessories, run, start. Power (from F11) should run to the common contacts (3) in both diagrams. What other BOO-BOOs have they made?
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
04 Dec 2021, 05:45
It's down to the earths at pins 6 and 8 of the 16 pin green connector on the BSI.

If the earth connections look OK you could measure the current flowing from the BSI to the earths. Make sure the big 2 pin grey connector is plugged in. Use your meter on current and probe from pin6 OR pin8 across to the corresponding pin on the connector. If you get nothing, then its a power problem if you get something, then something in the electronics has gone bung (and the BSI is not waking up?). DANGER, WARNING!!!!!! Don't forget to set the meter probes BACK to the volts/ohms plug on your meter when you are finished. Or you could blow the a$$ out of a circuit or your meter!! If you knew that..fine.
Checked the earths on green connector for pins 6 & 8 and they are fine. Tried setting the multimeter to 10adc to check the current on pin 8 and got zero when ignition is off and 0.01 when ignition is on.
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

napping wrote:
04 Dec 2021, 14:03
Checked the earths on green connector for pins 6 & 8 and they are fine. Tried setting the multimeter to 10adc to check the current on pin 8 and got zero when ignition is off and 0.01 when ignition is on.
:( Your BSI is not doing what it needs to do. It's not quite "dead" as current is flowing through it but it's not working. You have power to it, grounds and some current flowing through it. So the problem must be inside the the BSI.
The next step would be to open up the BSI.
How far down this rabbit hole do you want to go?
You can pry the tabs to release the two halves. Be very careful not to break the tabs!! You will need to run a blade through the paper label.
BSI 001.jpg
This is a photo of the guts of a MK1 BSI. Yours will be similar but not exactly the same.
BSI 002.jpg
You will need to go over it with a fine tooth comb. Look for any kind of anomalies, things that don't look right. Anything burnt out.
Failing that, you may need to send it away for repair.
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

If you can get another BSI cheap enough from a breakers you can prove the hypothesis.
The engine wont run (should turn over) and the key fob remote wont work but you should be able to open the door from the dash button and the car should otherwise come to life.
Again, it depends on if you want to go to that amount of trouble just to prove a point?
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
04 Dec 2021, 20:43
The next step would be to open up the BSI.
How far down this rabbit hole do you want to go?
That's a tricky question! Part of me thinks the problem is a bad connection/dry joint probably in the BSI, maybe between the 2 boards. My initial thought was that there could be a defective relay that's sticking and failing to wake up the BSI - but that's just a wild guess. If it's relatively easy to open it up perhaps I'll do it, but first I'll check the cost of having it tested and repaired rather than risk further damage. And I'll see if I can get a cheap duplicate part to test the hypothesis :wink:
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

I just don't give up do I?
If the replacement BSI does work, It wont be a complete waste. You should be able to get new keys coded to it and the VIN of the BSI changed.
I am trying to think of the cheapest way out of this.
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
04 Dec 2021, 21:19
I just don't give up do I?
Thankfully for me, you're like a dog with a bone! :)
There are pre-owned BSI "kits" on Eb@y consisting of matched BSI/ECU/keys and sensor. But I'd prefer to get the original BSI repaired and get a warranty on it and keep the original keys, locks and ignition cylinder.
ozvtr
Posts: 156
Joined: 13 Oct 2020, 01:11
x 39

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

The engine ECU has a 4 character PIN code that must be validated on startup or it wont manage the engine.
That code is "remembered" by the BSI and passed on at startup. You can get (buy) that code from Citroen with the correct documentary proof.
A blank transponder chip or key transponder (easy and cheap to find) can be coded in to the BSI fairly easy. The transponder identifier is remembered by the BSI and each time it 'recognizes' that transponder the BSI passes on the 4 character PIN code to the engine ECU...and the engine runs.
So producing a key to start the engine is not so hard.

The crunch comes when you start talking about the remote for the central locking (sigh).
Being a MK2, or all-CAN network car, it is possible to get the 'cheap-Chinese-knock-off' keys to work. But there are some potential problems (which I wont bore you with the details).

So...IF the replacement BSI works. You could get the engine ECU pin from Citroen, go to a proper MASTER LOCKSMITH, not the guys who fix shoes in the local shopping center!!!! A proper master locksmith, and buy the key(s) there and get them to code them in. That way it's guaranteed to work. You just swap over the blades and you don't need to change the locks.
It depends on what scan tool they use but they may be able to change the VIN in the BSI. This really only effects the stock radio. The correct VIN will stop the radio from beeping. The replacement BSI will have the wrong VIN.

There is one last problem. The BSI and the instrument cluster both hold the mileage of the car. If you change one of them, the LOWEST mileage gets changed to the HIGHEST! So IF the BSI is changed for one with HIGHER mileage than your current car, your instrument cluster will now display the 'new' higher mileage! But you will have to decide if that is a big deal. So initially when you are testing out the replacement BSI, disconnect the instrument cluster. Unless you know the milage on the replacement BSI is lower than yours (or you don't care).

Believe it or not but there are still a few other options. But I think that's enough for this post.
User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 7963
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 520

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by xantia_v6 »

The PIN code can only be written once to the BSI, you can't reprogram a used one (hence used ones are sold as a set with the engine ECU). You can get the PIN erased by a specialist, but it cannot be done via the diagnostic port.
napping
Donor 2021
Posts: 65
Joined: 07 Feb 2021, 14:39
x 7

Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
05 Dec 2021, 04:21
There is one last problem. The BSI and the instrument cluster both hold the mileage of the car. If you change one of them, the LOWEST mileage gets changed to the HIGHEST! So IF the BSI is changed for one with HIGHER mileage than your current car, your instrument cluster will now display the 'new' higher mileage! But you will have to decide if that is a big deal. So initially when you are testing out the replacement BSI, disconnect the instrument cluster. Unless you know the milage on the replacement BSI is lower than yours (or you don't care).

Believe it or not but there are still a few other options. But I think that's enough for this post.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the impact on mileage. As my car is a low mileage one-owner car, it really needs to be preserved. That reason alone pushes me towards getting the BSI checked and repaired if possible.