Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

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napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 10:56
So the way I see it, you have good permanent power on the pins of the 2 pin grey connector, good earths on 6 and 8 of the green 16 pin connector. So why doesn't the interior light come on, when there is nothing to stop it?
Although generally useless, the Haynes manual shows the interior lighting circuit as having a roof console that integrates the interior lights. It shows power comes from the BSI and not directly from elsewhere. The diagram doesn't specify which BSI plug it comes from but it does give pins 1, 25 and 32 as the connections. (so I assume it's the 40v blue connector).
ozvtr
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

napping wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 12:49
Although generally useless, the Haynes manual shows the interior lighting circuit as having a roof console that integrates the interior lights. It shows power comes from the BSI and not directly from elsewhere. The diagram doesn't specify which BSI plug it comes from but it does give pins 1, 25 and 32 as the connections. (so I assume it's the 40v blue connector).
To my knowledge Haynes only does a book for the Mk1 and so far there have been too many differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 (I guess that's your point). For the Mk1, Pins 25 and 32 are in the 40 pin white connector. Pin1, in the 16 pin green connector (ignition switch power).
For the Mk1 the map reading lamps are connected to the ignition switch and power is supplied/cut by that. But we know why there is no power to the ignition switch.
I would say that for the MK2, as well, the dome, or interior, light is purely driven by the BSI. The BSI has power and ground. So I contend that is evidence that the BSI is dead.
Of course you can check out the CAN BUS as further evidence.
admiral51
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by admiral51 »

I have looked back through the thread and to me it seems that the car still thinks it is locked and alarmed.
Assuming that the car was locked/alarmed as the OP was asking how to get the passenger door unlocked with no electrics, did the alarm not go off when the drivers door was opened ?
Would it be possible that the BSI is waiting for a command from the alarm module to say it has been disarmed and to wake up ?
Is it possible that the alarm module could be dead and unable to give the command, and by default the car would stay asleep as a security feature?

As there is no communication from the OBD socket could the beeping when reconnecting the battery be a way for the dealers to know what is going on ?

I know random thoughts again.

Colin
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

ozvtr wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 22:36
But we know why there is no power to the ignition switch.
I would say that for the MK2, as well, the dome, or interior, light is purely driven by the BSI. The BSI has power and ground. So I contend that is evidence that the BSI is dead.
Of course you can check out the CAN BUS as further evidence.
napping wrote:
01 Dec 2021, 15:55
Although I can't easily get the plug off the ignition switch (some anti-theft? thing in the way) I have checked the ignitions wires and there is a live orange wire into the switch and when I twist the key the starter wire goes live too.
Yes - I agree that the interior light is driven by the BSI. Seems like all roads lead back to the BSI. Ignition switch has power, the power gets back to the BSI but the BSI doesn't play ball. I guess the BSI should be ready to wake up in response to the key fob remote or a door lock switch. At least part of the BSI should be working and listening all the time. Question is whether it's able to 'listen' or not.
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by ozvtr »

admiral51 wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 23:04
I have looked back through the thread and to me it seems that the car still thinks it is locked and alarmed.
Assuming that the car was locked/alarmed as the OP was asking how to get the passenger door unlocked with no electrics, did the alarm not go off when the drivers door was opened ?
Would it be possible that the BSI is waiting for a command from the alarm module to say it has been disarmed and to wake up ?
Is it possible that the alarm module could be dead and unable to give the command, and by default the car would stay asleep as a security feature?

As there is no communication from the OBD socket could the beeping when reconnecting the battery be a way for the dealers to know what is going on ?

I know random thoughts again.

Colin
Assuming napping's C2 has an alarm.
There are only 2 inputs to the alarm (directly). The volumetric sensors and the bonnet switch. A rare number of alarms have an internal tilt switch. Everything else goes through the CAN BUS. Under 'normal' circumstances, the alarm 'tells' the BSI that the bonnet is open and that is relayed to the central display. FYI if you don't have an alarm (on these models) it wont display that the bonnet is open.
The alarm module is then directly connected to the siren module.
So if the alarm is armed and the volumetric sensors or the bonnet switch go off, the alarm sends a signal to the siren module...and noise! If the alarm is armed and the doors are opened (forced) the BSI sends a signal to the alarm over the CAN BUS, which sends a signal to the siren module..and noise! If the alarm is armed and if the siren module is disconnected...noise (the module has it's own battery). If the alarm is armed and if the car battery is disconnected the siren module thinks it's disconnected and...noise! I would also assume that if the alarm were armed and the CAN BUS was cut...nothing would happen as the CAN BUS would be shut down anyway!
The stock immobilizer system stops the engine from running. The stock central locking and locks reduce the possibility of break-in and theft.
At no point does the alarm shut down the car. The BSI tells the alarm module when the car is locked, unlocked, the doors are open or to turn off the volumetric sensors. The alarm tells the BSI if the bonnet is open. That's all the communication that there is between the BSI and the alarm.
So assuming the BSI 'dies' while the alarm is armed and you used a key to open the door, then yes, the alarm would go off. The volumetric sensors would detect someone entering the vehicle despite the BSI being 'dead'.
As napping didn't mention this and the car was locked at the time, I would assume his car doesn't have an alarm.
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Anyone finding the wiring circuit diagrams difficult to decipher might find this info. on Peugeot/Citroen wiring of interest http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot ... rams.htm#8
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Dormouse wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 10:00
check the continuity of pin 5 to earth. If that is sound and there is no Canbus power at 6 and 14 then that is a major issue.
Good continuity at pin 5 to earth. No power at 6 & 14. :(
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Dormouse wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 10:06
After that, power up F13. Your relay R7 could a possibility. but all of the things above are quick and easy to do and provide more grid points to narrow down the area of the fault.
There are 2 fuse F13's. One in the BSI passenger fuse box and another in the under bonnet BSM fuse box (PSF1).
Both appear required to power BSI1 and PSF1.
Which one should I try to power up first? BSI1 (to bypass relay R7) or BSM (to bypass relay R6)?
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

napping wrote:
14 Dec 2021, 16:33
Dormouse wrote:
13 Dec 2021, 10:06
After that, power up F13. Your relay R7 could a possibility. but all of the things above are quick and easy to do and provide more grid points to narrow down the area of the fault.
There are 2 fuse F13's. One in the BSI passenger fuse box and another in the under bonnet BSM fuse box (PSF1).
Both appear required to fully power the BSI.
Which one should I try to power up first? BSI1 (to bypass relay R7) or BSM (to bypass relay R6)?
Dormouse
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by Dormouse »

napping wrote:
14 Dec 2021, 14:56
Anyone finding the wiring circuit diagrams difficult to decipher might find this info. on Peugeot/Citroen wiring of interest http://www.autoelectric.ru/auto/peugeot ... rams.htm#8
does help to clear out the clutter. only issue I have with it is .ru bit plus the warning triangle in the address bar.
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by Dormouse »

I would power the BSI one up. If things like interior lights start to show then you know the vehicle power is being held back in the BSI. You can then ask a specialist repairer what they think a repair is likely to be describing all the points with power and those without. Make sure as much as possible is physically switched off at startup and that the battery has more 12.4v in it. Anything less and either charge the battery or have a good boost battery clipped on. You don't want low voltages to start triggering more issues than are already there.
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Thanks Dormouse, I'll try that next :-) I wonder if there's a reason why Citroen gave the 2 fuses the same number? And why is it the post-2005 fuse F13 is missed from the list of fuse descriptions on https://fusesdiagram.com/citroen/fuse-b ... en-c2.html ?
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by Dormouse »

You actually have to ask why Citroen is so cack handed! FCF wouldn't exist if Citroen were transparent and helpful to there clients.
Dormouse
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by Dormouse »

My hand book has over 200 pages in it and is virtually useless. Only a handful things have turned out to be totally useful and the things it does not cover are a real pain!
napping
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Re: Citroen C2 - dead electrics - No power to locks, interior light, ignition - everything dead

Post by napping »

Update! I have powered 12v to fuse 13 on the BSI and the car burst into life. It may be a step forward as some of the dash lit up, the heater fan started up, headlights came on and wipers started. However, none of these things could be switched off and there is no ignition and no central locking function. The only way I could stop the things that started up was to disconnect the battery! I then tried powering 12v to F13 on engine fuse box and this had exactly the same effect as powering F13 on BSI. Not sure what all this means :? To add to the confusion, the dash displayed all the usual things but not the odometer (i.e. it displayed the tripometer but not the mileage as you would see when unlocking a door etc.).
Last edited by napping on 18 Dec 2021, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.