605 alternator

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white exec
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by white exec »

Yep, no stock at Mister Auto sites, or Autodoc.

A Valeo 437462 shown as available here:
Ebay - showing on both UK and Germany sites. From Germany.
enter "VALEO Lichtmaschine Generator LiMa ohne Pfand VALEO RE-GEN REMANUFACTURED 437462"

As Richard says, a professional rebuild/refurb of your existing one would be another option, but possibly not a lot cheaper. Buying another (non-exchange) one would leave you with a spare, which could be handy.
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moizeau
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by moizeau »

I'd still suggest to try a brush pack. Changed mine at 140000 miles, in situ, 5 mins. It lasted until the car got scrapped, did the same with my 1st BX at 200000 miles and it again outlasted the car that got scrapped at 450000. For 20 squid and 15 mins tops (if you can get at them) it's got to be worth a go.
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myglaren
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by myglaren »

Have a mate who had a Toyota Carina failing to charge.
Took him to the dealers who charged him £60 for a new belt.
A new alternator would be £600 (late nineties).

It wasn't the belt - of course.
Took it to a local autospark, new brushes. £8!
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

moizeau wrote:
17 Oct 2021, 16:30
I'd still suggest to try a brush pack. Changed mine at 140000 miles, in situ, 5 mins. It lasted until the car got scrapped, did the same with my 1st BX at 200000 miles and it again outlasted the car that got scrapped at 450000. For 20 squid and 15 mins tops (if you can get at them) it's got to be worth a go.
Ah yes - "if you can get at them"! Following are a couple of photos of a 605 alternator in situ - no doubt an XM is worse!

Firstly - from above. Yes that is a little bit of alternator visible (more or less in focus, but partly hidden by a bracket) between the hoses.
alternator-05642.jpg
Secondly from below - access is a bit better.
alternator-05645.jpg
I think removal will be my best policy - but that looks like a nose cone off and radiator out job. And before anyone explains that my alternator has obviously failed due to getting oil dripped on it - the photos are of a spare car. I did initially consider just using it, but it probably wouldn't last long, as it is oily...
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by xantia_v6 »

Take the one off the spares car, partially dismantle it to clean out the oil and grime. Check that the brushes are OK and reassemble. It should be good for another 25 years.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

OK, some progress (on the spare parts car). "Nose cone" off, and radiator out.
alternator-removal 1.jpg
Now I can see and touch!
alternator-removal 2.jpg
No-one's been in here for while - there were handfuls of oily leaves jammed under the radiator and between the condenser and radiator. One the plus side - there's no rust!
alternator-removal 3.jpg
Alternator out
alternator-removal 4.jpg
It's a Mitsubishi, and has a similar number to one that appears on the catcar.info page - A004TA0092. However mine has a 'B' on the end - presumably not significant. Anyway, main thing is it appears to be a 120 amp model (not just a wussy 90 or amp model).
alternator-removal 5.jpg


Well it's not the original alternator!
alternator-removal 6.jpg
Probably 2nd hand when fitted (22-05-06), but might be less than 26 years old! The date scratched into the casing falls in between the last couple of stamps in the service record, indicating that it was fitted when the car had traveled about 165,000 km (speedo now shows 224,000km).

So will definitely take it to local auto sparky, in the hope that it might be significantly less than 26 years old. Bearings feel fine BTW.

Will be interesting to see what's in the other car - the one that's on the road. I have never had more off it than the bumper bar and the fans, and certainly never touched the alternator. It's now done over 210,000 km, but when I bought it in 2009 it had only done about 73,000km, so seems a very strong chance it will be the original one.
Last edited by Armidillo on 21 Oct 2021, 10:55, edited 2 times in total.
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white exec
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by white exec »

Well done in getting that one out. What a palaver!
Hope the refurb goes ok.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

I should also have explained that it wasn't until I started dismantling that I realised that the alternator has it's own belt, driven directly from the crank pulley, and tensioned pretty much like any alternator or generator before the introduction of the serpentine belt.

So when I get home, first job on the 'good' 605 will be to determine if that belt is intact and tight!
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

Took the alternator from the parts car to my local sparky and cleared out to visit kids/grandkids for 3 weeks. The belt on the 'good' 605 is fine and the dim glow of the alternator light (both when key is turned on and when engine is running) indicates blown diodes (is that right)?

Just rang the sparky and he wants to test my spare alternator but is unsure of the function of the smaller of the 2 terminals. Yes I was surprised that a young/middle aged sparky would need advice on alternators, but there you go.

So we know (think?) that the thicker wire/bigger terminal is for the battery connection. What is the smaller terminal (marked 'A') connected to? Any advice on bench testing?

Sadly photo above only shows one terminal. Remember this is a 1995 (SII) 605 with PRV 12-valve V6 - so should be the same as XMs of the same age.

Cheers
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by RichardW »

It's presumably a simple alternator, so the small wire is the excitation wire. That the sparky doesn't know this doesn't inspire much confidence.....! To test it you will need some way of spinning it up, connect the big wire to +ve load (battery?), ground the casing to the -ve side of the load, and then apply 12V to the small terminal and the voltage should rise to 14 or so volts; you could check the current output with a clamp on ammeter. If you really want to know it is working properly then you need to scope the output to see that all the phases are working properly, and the output wave form is consistent.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by Armidillo »

I agree Richard - it couldn't be simpler! Most photos of alternator connectors show a plug with several blade connectors, but this just has a large post and a small one. The problem seems to be (in the sparky's mind)

a. the alternator might be computer controlled
b. it's French (well not the alternator, but the car)

I did explain that the car was over 25 years old, while the design is over 30 - hardly modern technology...

Embarrassed that I didn't take any photos of the rear of the thing, and it's remarkably difficult to find a clear photo of the connectors for an equivalent alternator. This is the best I could do:
alternator rear view.jpg
I can just distinguish the 'B' label on the larger post. Can't see it on this one, but on mine the small one is apparently labelled 'A'. It really couldn't be simpler could it - it seems over-engineered when other alternators use spade connectors, but the 'A' post can only be for the exciter wire.
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Re: 605 alternator

Post by xantia_v6 »

On the XM, (and I presume 605), the alternator exciter wire is fed via the coil of the engine running relay (which then controls the warning light).