Central locking error? Car locking randomly

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picassodad
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by picassodad »

Yes driver's door...car ok when dry.

When wet and I lock the door and come back to it later it's open, and visa versa...one time the battery went flat over night, probably cos the dam thing was unlocking then locking etc. all night.

Same battery on it now and ok.

It's raining today but not gone out to the car yet.

This situation has been going on for some time now even before car was laid up....

Sorted the chaffed wires ages ago but not the door loom yet. Gunna replace door loom wires with 7 core trailer board wires....
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

That's weird. What is going on with the loom? Is the door still locking randomly?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by picassodad »

At the moment even when it's been raining, like now and yesterday, it seems to be behaving it's self.

The door loom from the door pillar to the door it's self has been " repaired " before we got the car several years ago.

I have had to attend to 2 wires from memory. I can't seem to get the pug repair kit and seeing the verdigre etc on the door terminal block I was gunna replace the lot using 7 core trailer board wires, very flexible, and I would make it easily replaceable in ten years time.

How is your Citroen behaving, still have a mind of its own ?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

Yes it does. It's not my car it's one of my friend's car. He's taking it out to Citroën tomorrow and he'll let them have a look at it one more time.
If they tell him they can't find any error we'll have to fix it ourselves :D
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by picassodad »

How is car now ? Did dealer actually find something/anything ?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

The Citroën dealership did a diagnose on the car and they found that the BSI is bad and the car needs a new BSI and lock in the driver door. The price of the repair is a whopping 700£. What can go bad in the BSI regarding the locking?

Could it be a bad relay in the BSI? I really want to fix this instead of being ripped off by the dealer. What should I do from here?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by ozvtr »

I cant see how the door lock would be causing the random locking problem. I can understand random unlocking caused by the locks. If the micro switch in the lock shows the door open it will unlock. This can be a problem with the rear hatch lock in the C3 causing the doors to unlock. Is there just a mechanical problem with the lock, unrelated to the random locking?

With regards to the BSI locking relays-YES the relays are known to fail, however, the door locks just tend not lock or unlock. I've not heard of them causing random locking.

The relays can be replaced or if you get a donor BSI you can split the two circuit boards apart and just replace the "relay board".

You cant just replace the entire BSI. It contains coded information about the engine immobilizer and the central locking keys that can not be replaced (by the user).

Is the key fob working OK? Bad locking button? Have you removed the battery from the fob and see if the random locking stops?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

I really don't know. They just told me they would replace the BSI and the lock and the price for that. They probably aren't sure about the issue since the car has been there two times for this problem. First time they updated something regarding the software but this still didn't eliminate the problem.

They haven't told me any details but it's weird that there's both an error in the BSI and the lock. To me it seems like a trial and error problem solving so if that was the case it would be so expensive if I just replaced both those things. I've checked the price of the parts and they're 150£ so if I could fix it by myself it would be nice.

Yes that's what I found out. But my plan was to replace the "relay board". I just don't know if that will fix my problem and if you suggest it could be a lock issue how would I check that?

The keyfob is working properly. I've had the battery out for a week just to see if the key was the problem. The problem with the doors locking still persisted after taking out the battery from the key fob.
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by ozvtr »

No, I can't see how the door locks might cause the central locking to lock the car. I can see how they might cause the doors to unlock.

If the doors were closed and locked and a microswitch in the door locks went open circuit (randomly), the BSI would think one of the doors has been opened and unlock the others. BUT that is not what is happening here. Again I cant see how it would cause the doors to lock. Conversely, if the switch shorted out, it would just indicate to the BSI that the door was closed...and that's all. That by itself does not cause the doors to lock.

I bet even Citroen don't guarantee replacing the BSI and door lock will work!?

Hmm, the door locking switch in the center of the dash is a "membrane" switch. It relies on the resistance between tiny contacts on a circuit board. Have you tried disconnecting the door lock switch on the dash? This would also cause the doors to randomly unlock too (if the doors were locked at the time). Has that ever happened?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

That makes good sense.

I have other friends which have used this dealer and they've also experienced this dealer just throwing parts at them until the problem is solved. One of them had new parts fitted 3 times until the error was gone...

It's not my car. But my friend states that it is only locking. But this could probably be because he doesn't use the automatic locking function so when it activates it can't unlock because it's already unlocked.

I could try disconnecting the switch on the dash. But isn't it hard to get to? Or is there some easy way to access the switch?
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by white exec »

If the problem is diagnosed as "xxx" at the dealer, and replacement of that item fails to fix it, then there should be nothing to pay.
As and when they finally get the issue sorted, you should be paying for that part only, and the labour associated with that part alone, and not all the previous attempts/diagnoses which failed to fix.

If the car comes back to you not fixed, then refuse to take it, and insist they look at it again.

As a last resort, make an arrangement with your bank (easier in some countries than others) to stop payments, or recall payments already made. Only do this is all negatiation with the dealer fails.

I not long ago had a car with a Citroen main dealer for a routine repair, during which they destroyed one of its electronic components by failing to disconnect the battery during the repair. It took them five weeks to identify the problem, which was cured by fitting a new and inexpensive double relay. I suggested that I should not be paying for its replacement, nor all the investigation of the fault it caused, and they agreed not to make any charge, as a goodwill gesture for all the inconvenience and slowness of dignosis.
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

That's not how it works here in Denmark. They give you a price and you can say yes or no to it. Regarding the stopping of the payment you can't do that here the dealer will just come after you if you haven't paid for the work they've done.

When confronting the dealer with the issue that the error still exist they just say that the part they've changed also was bad and that they've overseen something that they forgot to change. I literally do all work on my car when seeing how some mechanics rip off people.

One of my friends had a "bad" turbo. They changed the turbo actuator and the problem still persisted. When I looked at the car I found that the turbo solenoid was bad. He payed around 200£ for a new actuator he probably didn't need. We fitted the new solenoid for 30£ and the problem was gone. It feels like they don't test the cars after they've worked on them.
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by white exec »

My advice would be to not pay until the fault is cleared. A road test might be needed to verify.

Main dealers (certainly Citroen ones) warranty both the parts fitted and the labour, so if you are charged for fixing a problem, and the dealer declares it fixed, if it then fails, their repair work will have been faulty or inappropriate, and so you have a case for requiring the work to be redone successfully.

You cannot reasonably be put in a position where a workshop/dealer bumbles along replacing parts willy-nilly, not managing to properly diagnose the fault, and then charges you for all the parts and labour involved. Logically, this could go on for ever, and that is not how it works. The aim of the exercise is to clear the faults, not to fit parts.

Across EU (and elsewhere) there are consumer protection organisations - and, indeed, motoring rescue organisations - who will intervene and act on your behalf to get incorrect charges refunded or work re-done.

It is important when approaching a dealer/workshop with a fault NOT to in any way simply request that x,y,z components are replaced, but to describe the fault to them, AND LET THEM make the diagnosis. You should not agree that this is a correct diagnosis, because that would then pass partial responsibility for it on to yourself. The diagnosis must be theirs, and if it turns out not to be correct, then it is they who will have mis-diagnosed, and must take corrective action.

If they are unable to offer a diagnosis, or are unreasonably vague about what may be wrong, they should not be entrusted with the work. It is, however, not unreasonable for them to make some initial assessment of the problem, and you could expect them to make a reasonsble charge for that. Completely open-ended 'carte blanche' is a risky and usually expensive way to go.

My apologies is all this is unhelpful.
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by Nego2403 »

ozvtr wrote: 08 Nov 2021, 00:35 No, I can't see how the door locks might cause the central locking to lock the car. I can see how they might cause the doors to unlock.

If the doors were closed and locked and a microswitch in the door locks went open circuit (randomly), the BSI would think one of the doors has been opened and unlock the others. BUT that is not what is happening here. Again I cant see how it would cause the doors to lock. Conversely, if the switch shorted out, it would just indicate to the BSI that the door was closed...and that's all. That by itself does not cause the doors to lock.

I bet even Citroen don't guarantee replacing the BSI and door lock will work!?

Hmm, the door locking switch in the center of the dash is a "membrane" switch. It relies on the resistance between tiny contacts on a circuit board. Have you tried disconnecting the door lock switch on the dash? This would also cause the doors to randomly unlock too (if the doors were locked at the time). Has that ever happened?
Did you know an easy way to access the connector on the dashboard locking button? I could try to disconnect this button to see if the problem persists.
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Re: Central locking error? Car locking randomly

Post by ozvtr »

Nego2403 wrote: 08 Nov 2021, 19:08 Did you know an easy way to access the connector on the dashboard locking button? I could try to disconnect this button to see if the problem persists.
Unfortunately, no. You need to remove the radio, reach up behind the dash, squeeze the retaining "ears" of the switch and remove the connector. Then you have to replace the radio or else the central locking wont work!
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