Competition Automatic Gearboxes

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Dormouse
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

mickthemaverick wrote:
03 Jul 2021, 18:50
I have just watched the video of the Mini and it certainly brought back some memories for me. I had an Austin Seven Mini reg 659 DON which I remember to be very similar to Ivan's one. I remember the floor mounted dipswitch but it also had a floor mounted starter button just behind the hand brake!! I used to drive it much like Ivan I do confess, although I was chased everywhere by a plume of blue smoke, but it was its handling that led me into the world of rallying so I'm not complaining!! :-D
Our 61 Mini had the dipswitch, starting button and plastic needled speedo exactly like the 59 and yours. It also had an 1100 engine and box complete with the alloy gear extension bolted up near the seat crossmember - hence the main reason for acquiring it. Single leading shoe brakes and skinny pea shooter exhaust. Oh the bliss!
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

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white exec wrote:
03 Jul 2021, 14:07
Well, what a find, Mike!
Confirms mine was a '59 - it had the little square pressings on the front slam panel, and no rear drain-holes in the roof gutter.
Biggest surprise was seeing that red colour - the very same.

Did know that the early cars had the classic chunky blade fan, which I never saw, as mine came without engine.
Changing the fanbelt was a fiddle, I remember. Some folk cut back/removed the rectangular inner-wing cowl, to allow the engine, complete with radiator, to lift out as one.
Ivan referred to how easy it was to add a second (and identical) carb.

He really needs to sort that clonking (steering rack slop), and likely some new shockers as well.
Ours could take roads like that without even a rattle; the Moulton rubber suspension was just silent.

£800 for a wash bottle... #-o By 'eck!

A real treat, watching that.
yip. twin SU's were in fact two standard jetted carbs. Seems to defy logic but if you work it through , the air flow/metering requirements for the carbs is the same. Twin carbs let the standard car breath better. Happy days.
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white exec
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by white exec »

Lots of other memories, too...
- the floor starter
- the cable-pull door openers
- the fuel pump that was half in and half out of the boot floor, iirc, and needed a clonk now and again to jump into life
- the air cleaner snout that could be swung towards the hot exhaust manifold in winter
- the steering column (and wheel) that was never quite square-on
- the slightly awkward accelerator pedal, which boosted sales of Paddy Hopkirk extentions, and Organ Pedal extras
- the mould that could appear on the lower window channels
- the very basic heater control lever that protruded from the heater assembly
- the long 'stirrer' gear lever, that rivalled the original P5 one in its vagueness, and massive fwd-back movement
- the FP, FR and FS keys that, given time, would open and start almost anything else
- the static seat belts
- the distributor at the front, exposed to the rain, even with its figure-hugging gaiter
- the whining idler cog (between engine and gearbox) that got added when they decided to flip the engine around, exhaust at the back
- the nicely crunchy floor-mounted dip-switch, up ahead of the gear stick
- the handbrake cables that could rust, seize and stretch
- the manual choke, that always worked
- the tappet clearances, that needed frequent adjustment
- the token cardboard battery cover
- the just-about-chromed filler cap, that broke its chain, got lost (or left on the car roof) and which was often replaced with a plastic aftermarket push-in one
- the plastic, push-on, chrome trim strips that ran along the wheel arches and sill, and could detach in the wind
- the rear number plate that, on some cars, was hinged, and stayed vertical when the boot was left open
- the little green lens on the end of the indicator stalk, that seemed hellbent on escape
- the screen demisters, that never really did
- the blasted exhaust manifold/downpipe joint that repeatedly went leaky
:gt:

Ah, fond memories, which never actually spoilt the fun.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

Mini colours for 1959
red, white and blue
Attachments
Opera Snapshot_2021-07-03_200241_1959miniregister.com.png
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

white exec wrote:
03 Jul 2021, 20:03
Lots of other memories, too...
- the floor starter
- the cable-pull door openers
- the fuel pump that was half in and half out of the boot floor, iirc, and needed a clonk now and again to jump into life
- the air cleaner snout that could be swung towards the hot exhaust manifold in winter
- the steering column (and wheel) that was never quite square-on
- the slightly awkward accelerator pedal, which boosted sales of Paddy Hopkirk extentions, and Organ Pedal extras
- the mould that could appear on the lower window channels
- the very basic heater control lever that protruded from the heater assembly
- the long 'stirrer' gear lever, that rivalled the original P5 one in its vagueness, and massive fwd-back movement
- the FP, FR and FS keys that, given time, would open and start almost anything else
- the static seat belts
- the distributor at the front, exposed to the rain, even with its figure-hugging gaiter
- the whining idler cog (between engine and gearbox) that got added when they decided to flip the engine around, exhaust at the back
- the nicely crunchy floor-mounted dip-switch, up ahead of the gear stick
- the handbrake cables that could rust, seize and stretch
- the manual choke, that always worked
- the tappet clearances, that needed frequent adjustment
- the token cardboard battery cover
- the just-about-chromed filler cap, that broke its chain, got lost (or left on the car roof) and which was often replaced with a plastic aftermarket push-in one
- the plastic, push-on, chrome trim strips that ran along the wheel arches and sill, and could detach in the wind
- the rear number plate that, on some cars, was hinged, and stayed vertical when the boot was left open
- the little green lens on the end of the indicator stalk, that seemed hellbent on escape
- the screen demisters, that never really did
- the blasted exhaust manifold/downpipe joint that repeatedly went leaky
:gt:

Ah, fond memories, which never actually spoilt the fun.
If this happened with a modern car you would run a mile.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AP_automatic_transmission
Now, as we all know, the AP transmission is unique and very capable
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

Drag racing has long been the bastion of competition auto boxes to the point where 40 year old designs are being remanufactured and upgraded today still and on reading Engine Builder it is only now that other types of gearboxes are being considered in the quest to reduce shift times to millieseconds. The power transmitted is eyewateringly huge as the search for lower times is pushed and pushed. Now, personally, I don't enjoy drag racing as much as say F1, but I do understand the technology and commitment that goes into it. Watching some of the top fueller's twisting their frames as they launch is awesome to think about. So, if they twist their frames that much, you realise how much torque the transmission is passing to the rear tyres.
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white exec
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by white exec »

Reading that Wikipedia page (which I hadn't before), I'm amazed my conversion from manual to auto (with engine and subframe retained) was ever successful, or reliable.
As far as oil feed was concerned, I vaguely remember just one external HP hose being added, linked in to the existing external (banjo'd) oil pipe.
I don't remember either oil pump or oil filter being changed (they weren't by me), but perhaps the Heathfield refurb of the box tackled that.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

Well, as you and I now know, the Wiki pages aren't up to speed. The only combination I never tried was an Auto block on a manual/clutched gearbox. That is why you and I now belong to a very select club of nutters.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

What White Exec didn't/ still doesn't realise is that the front subframe for automatic minis is different to the manual one. You can get the box in (just, with a bit of faffing) but you can't get the front plate off to service/adjust the box. The original twin bolt rubber cone subframe came in two versions, the Hydrolastic twin bolt subrame came in two versions (with completely different sized upper arms to boot), so you would have thought by the mk 111 single bolt version they would have standardised on one subframe - nope. Unfortunately typical BMC/British Leyland left and right hands.
There was even talk of making "mirrored" castings for the A series mini engine to avoid the transfer idler gear issues but BMC management didn't think the Mini sales numbers would justify "special" parts so just keep using the A35 stuff. Wrong!!!!!
Isn't ignorance bliss, Chris. You got away with it in spite of BMC best efforts.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

Back to autoboxes.
Opera Snapshot_2021-07-03_162522_www.enginebuildermag.com.png
and this one
Opera Snapshot_2021-07-03_165721_www.revzilla.com.png
this should ruffle feathers - why isn't there more automatic motorcycles?
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by Dormouse »

white exec wrote:
03 Jul 2021, 21:06
Reading that Wikipedia page (which I hadn't before), I'm amazed my conversion from manual to auto (with engine and subframe retained) was ever successful, or reliable.
As far as oil feed was concerned, I vaguely remember just one external HP hose being added, linked in to the existing external (banjo'd) oil pipe.
I don't remember either oil pump or oil filter being changed (they weren't by me), but perhaps the Heathfield refurb of the box tackled that.
the auto box oil filter is horizontal above the inspection plate for clearance (and larger). the manual oil filter would hang vertically down the front over the plate with a spacer added. You obviously never had the inclination to adjust your brake bands! [-o< :yeah:
Last edited by Dormouse on 04 Jul 2021, 10:09, edited 1 time in total.
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white exec
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by white exec »

What that says about the inherent strength of the auto transmission (sun gear) train likely explains Rover's decision to offer the original V8 "automatic only". They just didn't then have a manual box strong enough for the job. It was some years before a new (4-speed) manual appeared in the P6B (the 3500S) and I think it never did in much heavier P5B.

For the SD1, there were actually several versions a new 5-speed manual box, only one of them meant for the V8. This was strengthened, had extra fine tolerances, taper bearings, as well as its own internal oil pump.

A Police Spec V8 manual box was listed in the Unipart spares catalogue, and with a higher than normal reverse gear - presumably for sustained reverse action on motorway hard-shoulders. When I was searching for a good SD1 V8 manual box for our P6B, I was tempted by one of these Police boxes, on clearance at Unipart for 'only' £660. In the end, I found a V8 one in a small local scrapyard in Billingshurst for just £100.
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by bobins »

white exec wrote:
04 Jul 2021, 08:52
I was tempted by one of these Police boxes, on clearance at Unipart for 'only' £660. In the end, I found a V8 one in a small local scrapyard in Billingshurst for just £100.

If you mean the breakers yard at Adversane, it's long gone I'm afraid. I went there a few times as they still had some very old cars there not that many years ago. It's a straightforward metal recycling yard there now along with some other businesses :(
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Re: Competition Automatic Gearboxes

Post by white exec »

Dormouse wrote:
04 Jul 2021, 08:42
The auto box oil filter is horizontal above the inspection plate for clearance (and larger). the manual oil filter hangs vertically down the front over the plate. You obviously never had the inclination to adjust your brake bands! [-o< :yeah:
You're right, I did end up with a horizonal oil filter.
Just forgot about that, and a lot of other detail about the conversion too, as it was all more than half a century ago. :shock:
A good reason not to try to add anything to that Wiki entry! (The Hydractive Suspension entry is another matter: quite a substantial addition there. Much more recent... )