Peugeot 407 V6 BSM L02 starting issues / wiring diagram ?

[407]

small update

I cleared all the OBD codes (eg P0081, P020x injectors open loop ) by pushing the main 15 pin engine connector together (see other post) - seems that is the weak link

Had mobile tech come out and try and fix the car. He checked all wiring and it was fine.

Now the car will start once in a while now (but not every time) and will run but only if I keep my foot on the accelerator (eg 1000 rpm +)

If I lift it off, it dies and I get the old P0335 code (engine speed sensor) which until I clear with Diag will not allow the engine to start again.

if it does not start, after I release the starter key to off, it sets the P0335 code and will not start until cleared.

When cranking or running I can see the live data engine speed on Diag (so the wiring and sensor seem okay)

Tech thinks its a ECU issue but can't explain why it will keep running if the accelerator pedal is pushed down.

[GiveMeABreak]

P0335 is Engine speed sensor signal fault: Not characterised - so different top your previous P00336, but not much help. Did you get a decent sensor or a cheap job? We've lost count the number of times cheap sensors have been faulty or DOA here - just a thought.

[wheeler]

I picked up a multimeter with a oscilloscope so will test it when cranking to see if any signals are being sent.

This is your best friend when checking a crank sensor & really the only way to properly test it. Live data from the diagnostic machine is only a rough guide that the sensor is working, The signal could be corrupting, or breaks in the signal that the slight delay in the live data cant see. With the scope you can actually see if you have a good signal.
Ideally you would scope the signal at pins E2/E3 of the 48 way brown connector on the ECU, that way you also check the wiring. Without a breakout box though this can be easier said than done & would likely require piercing into the wiring up at the ECU plug.
You should get a waveform something like this, the bigger gaps are the missing tooth on the flywheel.

[407]

So did the multimeter oscilloscope test on the output of the 1920EN crankshaft / engine speed sensor.

I have three of these 1920EN now, the original and 2 Aliexpress copies. I have tried all three at some stage but no luck as a permanent fix, but the car did start and run okay a few times (random) with the current sensor (aliexpress copy) so have to assume it is working.

The 3 attached pics (could not load a video file) are one cranking cycle (around 6 seconds) with the aliexpress 1920EN copy, but does show the signal continues when cranking, whereas on Diag it cuts out after 2-3 seconds cranking (eg disappears) even though the engine continues to crank

Not a smooth sine wave like your pic above (and I'm not sure I have any teeth missing). I wonder if the ECU gets confused and gives up ? (but as above, it does start once in a while)

I have a Bosch 1920EN on order so will see if the signal is any better.

Of interest, if you disconnect the sensor wiring (eg so its not connected to the ECU) and test it, the engine will stop and not crank after 2/3 seconds, but if you leave the wiring connected to the ECU, the engine will continue to crank - suggests that the ECU has to see it to allow cranking, but it falls over somewhere else in the ECU given Diag shows it disappearing (and sets the P0335 ODB code) .

[407]

As a test, I reinstalled the original crankshaft sensor and reran the oscilloscope tests

I can't help thinking the distorted signals are confusing the ECU and so tripping the P0335 code, but can't work out why they are so weird given its just a hall effect sensor.

[wheeler]

As a test, I reinstalled the original crankshaft sensor and reran the oscilloscope tests

I can't help thinking the distorted signals are confusing the ECU and so tripping the P0335 code, but can't work out why they are so weird given its just a hall effect sensor.

This is an inductive sensor is it not? A hall effect would give a square wave pattern. The cam sensors are hall effect.
Not sure what to make of that signal, not sure if its just your scope maybe not the best? Can you get a better signal if you adjust the time base?

[GiveMeABreak]

My money's on dodgy sensors - I would never buy anything like that from Ali **?'~%^.

[407]

So the saga continues

Put a new Bosch made in Turkey 1920EN sensor in, cleared the P0335 code and surprise, surprise it started , ran for a few seconds and then died.

Tried a few more times and it will now start once in a while (eg better than the old sensors), but will only run if I keep the pedal down, not a lot but just so its over 1000 rpm or so. It has run for a few minutes and then dies.

Also, most times when it dies now it does not set the P0335 (engine speed sensor signal) code.

The engine speed sine signal looks the same as the old sensors. all a bit random. As an aside, I assume the flywheel has a sensor ring gear like pic that triggers - any views that some of the slots are blocked with something ?

In exchange, it is now setting a P3013 (programming motorised throttle housing stop) and a P0121 (motorised throttle potentiometer track 1 and 2) codes.

I now have a "new ECU" and a BSI (H02) but will hold off fitting as I'm not convinced the ECU is the problem anymore.

[GiveMeABreak]

I'm wondering if with a 'proper' sensor now in place, that the learned output voltage is now different (above or below) between tracks 'A' and 'B' so it throwing a wobbly. Whether you can go for a drive to get the values re-learned I'm not sure as sometimes these faults can actually cause a backup mode with reduced power. But may be worth a shot.

[407]

So have run thru all the wiring and confirmed that the crankshaft sensor / coolant sensor and throttle body wiring seem all to be direct connections to the ECU (no intra wire connectors) and might all be grouped together (or close by) based on the circuit diagrams of the ECU

I am now wondering if there are some internal shorts eg heat / oil / age insulation breakdowns within the wiring loom that are causing the errors (and maybe the distorted engine speed signals) - like http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop/ws ... ottle2.htm so will try a direct bypass wiring of the crankshaft sensor into the ECU

When cold, the car will start once in a while (random), run for a while but then will stop, setting the P0121 throttle body code and then the P0335 crankshaft sensor code (which you have to clear before the car will start / show cranking engine speed on live data) .

I managed to drive it forwards and backwards around 20 meters (its not reliable enough to drive further) but that did not seem to clear the P0121 code.

I pulled the throttle body electrics cover apart and all seems okay / no gear broken / resistance pads look fine and the engine will accelerate okay but does not idle. I read somewhere that the 4 pickup runners on the resistance pads can cross over and cause the P0121 but they seemed to line up okay.

I then "tried" to swap the spare matched Bosch ECU and BSI H02 (Johnson Controls) for the original Bosch ECU and BSI L02 (Siemens) but found the following

a) 98% of the L02 connectors match up and fit the same marked sockets as on the H02
b) However, the EH2 connector (grey 40 pin) will not slot in as the lugs are too narrow on the equivalent EH2 H02 socket but only has 3 wires - any views if I cut the lugs off to make it fit or was there a reason for the change in connectors / sockets ?
c) I'm left with one 2 wire connector (Noir AA) as there is no equivalent socket on the H02 to fit it into - suspect its the LSI connector given the shielded wire (say 6H4 C100)

Lesson is the Johnson BSI H02 is not a direct swap for a Siemens BSI L02 but was worth a shot as I've never found a matched Bosch ECU with a Siemens BSI L02 anyway.

[407]

So, gave up on using the BSI H02 full security matched set (eg keys, ECU and BSI) and decided to look at swapping the ECU only.

Got some ideas off Youtube (who doesn't ? ) to simply solder swap the immobiliser eprom between two Bosch ME 7.4.7 ECU I now have.

After open the ECU, I picked the likely candidate as the 95320 SOP8 IC (8 pin). It was the closest one to the main ECU computer. Unlike other ECU, the Bosch ME 7.4.7 has three eproms so made it that much harder.

So, after a visit to a local PC tech (they do this all the time) I had unsoldered and swapped the 95320's

Now the good and bad news (at least for me)

1. I picked the right SOP8 chip as the car started and no immo issues
2. bad news is that it still will not run below 1000 rpm and still sets the P0335 code (engine speed sensor) so seems was old ECU is okay (which now is now the donor car)
3. it no longer sets economy mode so I can wind down the windows (getting got here) and turn the radio on whilst pondering my next move
5. I now suspect either the throttle unit or the accelerator TPS unit (as I get a code P0121)

will run Diag on it again but at least its does not seem to be the ECU

I assume I can eliminate the BSI as it would not control any engine running functions ? re difference between BSI H02 and S02, would still would like to know what the three wires in EH2 socket do

I've loaded up a pic of the ME 7.4.7 board with swapped SOP8 chip

[407]

Finally solved this but not the way I expected.

I suspect a combination of both the items below

1. Seems the 32 / 48 pin connectors get filled with dielectric grease at factory (18 or so years ago) which turns to a hard silicon type of sludge after 20 or so years.

Using some circuit board spray (cheap version of CRC Contact Cleaner) and my air compressor, I blew all the "blobs" away on all three ECU connectors.

I could not work out how to take the 32/48 way connector tops off (they do seem to lift up) so ended up breaking the lower tabs off to get better access.

You can get new Molex connector shells (and the locking tabs) on Aliexpress if you are minded to transplant the cables.

2. it seems the 1920EN engine s[peed sensor connectors actually need to be wired one way only - eg pin 1 goes to ECU pin E2 and pin 2 goes to ECU pin E3 on the black / nero 48 way pin connector.

Not sure how or when this was swapped but when the wrong away around the car start and ran anyway, only later on would die on idle.

Once fixed, started and ran okay even at idle.

Now to fix the other OBD codes P0131 oxygen sensor , P0463 fule tank sensor ??, P1335 crankshaft sensor) that have come up after the car sat idle for a few months - seems to run fine and no MIL light so go figure

[luisbicalho]

Hi, the BSM fuse box of my peugeot 308 has the number 9800270480. The model is R05, but I'm worried about the numbers on mine and the one that i want to by on e-bay 9666700480. Is is mandatory to buy with the same number? Will this prevent it from working?

[myglaren]

Please only post in the relevant forum and only one post per request.
Multiple posts only cause confusion and reduce the chances of useful responses.

[GiveMeABreak]

Stick to the exact same part number (9800270480 if that is on your original). These may look the same or seem identical visually but they are not, as the internal components will be different.