New 2021 Citroen C5X revealed

[Sloppysod]

C5	508 SW	Kia Ceed

Boring, Boring, Boring

Here is anotherr photo to this set....Citroen, Peugeot or?

[GiveMeABreak]

The 'DS 9' was supposed to be out years ago IIRC - so they get rid of the C5 (X7) and replace it with almost the same design a few years later? I think this is a mistake. The C5 X and the DS9 and the 508 why 3 similar cars in this segment? I can see another 'C6 scenario' forming where one or more of these models will be 'cancelled' very quickly due to poor sales and saturation.

[Sloppysod]

.............. I can see another 'C6 scenario' forming where one or more of these models will be 'cancelled' very quickly due to poor sales and saturation.

Probably the Citroen as it looks dated compared to the other two.

[Lynnzer]

Look what's coming. The new C5X looks an absolute dream.
The only noticeable shortfall is that the hybrid version will run out of customers when All Electric competitors take the market.

[GiveMeABreak]

This whole thread has been moved out of the 'Technical Forum' into the OTCL and the post above merged into this thread.

[Sloppysod]

Hi Guys, I need help, I have just watched two Youtube videos, the Ds9 & the new C5, both Plug-in Hybrids.
I just dont get it, why pay extra for a car that has a battery that will only give you 20 miles on a single charge and then you have to spend another hour or so charging it up again.
Its pointless, Self-charging Hybrids I understand but plug-ins, come on thats just PSA circumventing the environmental rules surely, so they can say yes "Mr Government" we do make EV's.
As for congestion charges, are they charged or do they get away with that aswell....l as it has a battery even though he battery charge has probably been used before the vehicle gets the the low emission area? - rant over.

[white exec]

Yes, Stu, you sussed it.

Plug-in hybrids with tiny batteries can make the car qualify for (current) permissions to enter ULEZs etc, and also allow the mfr to claim to be producing "EVs" in their range. The electric propulsion contribution (to zero emissions) is miniscule.

"Self-charging hybrids" are just plain dishonest. The charging comes - at best - from regenerative braking, but largely (I am guessing) from the output of the petrol engine. It also allows mfrs to claim . . . etc etc etc. The absence of real-world running data from the likes of Toyota is telling.

Some city authorities are seeing though this markerting deception, and are beginning to restrict free access to only 100% EV. Even HMG anticipates ending the current qualification for these vehicles to be classed as 'green'.

[Hell Razor5543]

Dual fuel hybrids are also a con (if it does not have a plug-in capability).

[mickthemaverick]

BEV Hybrids which use a range extending diesel generator running on veggie oil would be the only form of Hybrid that I might concede as acceptable. Fundamentally any "Self charging" hybrid is getting all the energy used to drive it from the fuel you put in the tank, however it is configured, and that means that the fuel needs to be carbon free to make it viable. The nearest we have to that is veggie oil unless you go to Hydrogen with all the issues there which can be found on the Hydrogen thread! So the best idea I have seen was a BEV with a pedal driven generator operated by your chimpanzee in the boot!!

[Paul-R]

... operated by your chimpanzee in the boot!

Ahem...

[mickthemaverick]

And I thought I'd had an original idea!!

[NewcastleFalcon]

Horses mouth stuff from TfL. From October the Citroen CX5 Plug in Hybrid will be hit with the congestion charge (London) as the rules are to change. It would have to to 70 miles electric only, for the exemption.

It will not have to pay the ULEZ charge (London).

Congestion Charge
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/conges ... exemptions

From October 2021 The Congestion Charge (London) exemptions are being toughened and out goes the exemption for plug in hybrids and Self charging Hybrids of any description. Project forward and from 25th December 2025 even 100% BEV's will lose the exemption.

Cleaner vehicle discount (congestion charge)

Currently, only vehicles that meet Euro 6 standards (petrol and diesel), that emit no more than 75g/km of CO2 and have a minimum 20 mile zero emission capable range will qualify for the 100% cleaner vehicle discount.

From 25 October 2021, the cleaner vehicle discount will change so that only battery electric or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are eligible. Then from 25 December 2025, the cleaner vehicle discount will be discontinued. From this date, all vehicle owners, unless in receipt of another discount or exemption, will need to pay to enter the Congestion Charge zone during charging hours.

The Ultra Low Emissions Zone
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... -zone/cars
TfL reckon 4 out of every 5 cars currently will be exempt from ULEZ charges. (not really that Ultra then)

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra- ... his-page-4

Ultra Low Emissions Zone Charges rules are a bit more lenient currently with Euro 4 Petrol, and Euro 6 Diesel escaping, as well as Historic Vehicles (over 40 years old for private use) and yes the plug in hybrids and self charging hybrids escape too.

REgards Neil

[white exec]

Good news about hybrid exemption deletion. Rumbled, at last!
Other cities will surely follow.

[mickthemaverick]

Good news about hybrid exemption deletion. Rumbled, at last!
Other cities will surely follow.

It certainly is, since having the Prius on contract hire in 2007 I have been continuously baffled by the lack of understanding of the energy equation by the general motoring fraternity. Energy out + losses = Energy in. So the only energy that ever went into the Prius was petrol so the internal technology of the hybrid made no difference to the fact that I was travelling around on fossil fuel energy. (By the way I had the Prius because I was working in London and it gave me exemption to the congestion charge at the time!! )