C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Moderator: RichardW
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
You said you change the spheres is it original citroen? The damping valves and the rubber membrane of original citroen is way better than non originals. My C% is still running on the original set and is 15 years old. I refilled it to spec 2 years ago and its running fine. C5 will set suspension higher by about 15mm if it encounter rough roads below 90 kph. Once it raises 15 mm your suspension become stiffer. Check your height sensor linkage and anti roll bar linkage for free play as it will introduce false signal to your suspension ECU. Hope this helps.
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
I've already checked height sensor but I will do it again to be sure. Somebody told me even 1cm is important. To be honest I think I have less than 1cm from the original setting. I connected Diagb*x on the road and suspension ECU has detected most of the time like 90% in rough road but the state of Hydractive still in comfort mode, very rare in sport mode.
What do you mean by check height sensor linkage and anti-roll bar ? Not the same than what I did ?
GiveMeABreak : you said, during the procedure of bleeding system, I suppose to see the LDS level right ? But normally, you must check LDS level with depressurizing the system. Do you think I need to add LDS to see it on the lowest position ?
Thank you for your help guys,
BR,
Maxime
What do you mean by check height sensor linkage and anti-roll bar ? Not the same than what I did ?
GiveMeABreak : you said, during the procedure of bleeding system, I suppose to see the LDS level right ? But normally, you must check LDS level with depressurizing the system. Do you think I need to add LDS to see it on the lowest position ?
Thank you for your help guys,
BR,
Maxime
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Hi Maxime
For the consumer (customer / end user) they would not normally have the ability to fully depressurise the system as either the individual axles have to be manually depressurised or the use of a clone tool is required as you know. So yes, normally when checking the LDS fluid level, it is done when the system is depressurised. As most end users don't have the will or ability to depressurise the circuit, it is common for the fluid to be checked on the lowest setting using the electronic control in the car.
There is sufficient space in the tank for slightly more fluid when the car is checked on the lowest suspension setting, but it should only ever be between the 'A' & 'B' marks and not above this and another reason why the cap must be removed and suspension raised to the highest when raising the car off the ground where the wheels will be hanging unsupported, so that the pressure of the fluid under the sudden weight of the car being dropped back to the ground does not rush back in and potentially burst the tank.
For the consumer (customer / end user) they would not normally have the ability to fully depressurise the system as either the individual axles have to be manually depressurised or the use of a clone tool is required as you know. So yes, normally when checking the LDS fluid level, it is done when the system is depressurised. As most end users don't have the will or ability to depressurise the circuit, it is common for the fluid to be checked on the lowest setting using the electronic control in the car.
There is sufficient space in the tank for slightly more fluid when the car is checked on the lowest suspension setting, but it should only ever be between the 'A' & 'B' marks and not above this and another reason why the cap must be removed and suspension raised to the highest when raising the car off the ground where the wheels will be hanging unsupported, so that the pressure of the fluid under the sudden weight of the car being dropped back to the ground does not rush back in and potentially burst the tank.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Thank you Marc, so it's fine to me.
Do you think that temperature and atmospheric pressure have an influence on LDS and stiffness ? Maybe you feel something different in winter or summer ? Or after shot and long travel ?
To me, yes
Do you think that temperature and atmospheric pressure have an influence on LDS and stiffness ? Maybe you feel something different in winter or summer ? Or after shot and long travel ?
To me, yes
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
I would not expect temperature to have much of an influence. Remember that the engine bay does get quite a bit warmer than a warm summer day, and Citroen would certainly know this.
James
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Guys, I think I find a way... Height of car depend of tires pressure right ? So, if tires pressure are not correct, it mean height are not correct too. Even some milimeters can create a problem like what said "lcwin". When I checked height, it was long time ago like 6 months..
Of course Hell Razor but my suspension is little bit more smooth in the beginning of travel and in winter
Of course Hell Razor but my suspension is little bit more smooth in the beginning of travel and in winter
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Yes temperature will obviously have some affect on most fluids, but they are engineered to perform under variable conditions. These are the changes in viscosity for LDS fluid at different temperatures:
Test | Unit | Test method | Result |
Volumetric mass at 15°C | kg/m3 | ASTM D1298 | 820 |
Viscosity at 40°C | mm2 /s | ASTM D445 | 18 |
Viscosity at 100°C | mm2 /s | ASTM D445 | 5.9 |
Viscosity at -40°C | mPa.s | ASTM D2983 | 1 050 |
Viscosity index | - | ASTM D2270 | 320 |
Flash point Cleveland | °C | - | 157 |
Pour point | °C | ASTM D97 | -51 |
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
If the tyres are not at the right pressure (or, worse, not the right size) the ride will be affected. I recall one member having a problem with his XM, and somebody else thought the tyres looked wrong. It turned out they were the wrong size, and when the correct size tyres were fitted the suspension behaved as it should. The suspension system can deal with that which is under its' control, but it relies upon external factors being within expected parameters for it to work properly. If the tyre pressures are wrong, or the tyres are too rigid (as would happen with run-flat tyres) or incorrect in size the suspension ECU will not 'know' this and will try and do the best it can with what it has to deal with.
When I check my tyres (on my car and on my company van) I will do so early in the morning, and within a few miles of starting to drive for the day.
When I check my tyres (on my car and on my company van) I will do so early in the morning, and within a few miles of starting to drive for the day.
James
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Many thanks and glad to have people like you to help me !
Thanks Marc for this precision. So it mean, when it's hot, it suppose to be more smooth, not like me. Interresting... I will study all what you gave me with Hell Razor and do some experiences and keep you informed. About checking tyres pressure, always cold of course.
Today, I will probably check tyres pressure and check is they are at 2.4 bars front and rear. My wheels and tyres are 17' with 225/55/17 with Michelin Primacy 4. So it's fine. Thanks Hell Razor for your exemple. This is probbly what's happening to me, I mean about pressure.
I don't have tool to check pressure, I need to drive for 5 min in a gaz station, if I drive slowly, it can keep cold tyres.
Sorry my bad english,
BR,
Maxime
Thanks Marc for this precision. So it mean, when it's hot, it suppose to be more smooth, not like me. Interresting... I will study all what you gave me with Hell Razor and do some experiences and keep you informed. About checking tyres pressure, always cold of course.
Today, I will probably check tyres pressure and check is they are at 2.4 bars front and rear. My wheels and tyres are 17' with 225/55/17 with Michelin Primacy 4. So it's fine. Thanks Hell Razor for your exemple. This is probbly what's happening to me, I mean about pressure.
I don't have tool to check pressure, I need to drive for 5 min in a gaz station, if I drive slowly, it can keep cold tyres.
Sorry my bad english,
BR,
Maxime
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
5 minutes drive would not be an issue, as the tyres will have barely started to warm up.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
Ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
C5 2.2HDi VTX+
Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Hello guys,
Today, I checked tyres pressure and it was 2.2 bars on the front and 2.0 bars on the rear. I did 2.4 both.
I also checked the heights after checked tyres pressure, the front is perfect with an average height of 160.5 mm (160 mm original) but for the rear, I'm at 118 (106 original). So I'm 12 mm too low. Can you confirm that ?
Do you think my problem is here ?
I will check again in a few days to be sure
BR,
Maxime
Today, I checked tyres pressure and it was 2.2 bars on the front and 2.0 bars on the rear. I did 2.4 both.
I also checked the heights after checked tyres pressure, the front is perfect with an average height of 160.5 mm (160 mm original) but for the rear, I'm at 118 (106 original). So I'm 12 mm too low. Can you confirm that ?
Do you think my problem is here ?
I will check again in a few days to be sure
BR,
Maxime
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
letko, once suspension is at Rough road setting and Comfort mode it actually raises the car by 15mm for more ground clearance. If you raise suspension by 15mm the suspension air spring is stiffer by easily 20 to 30% subjectively.
Tyre pressure within 10% is acceptable. Michelin Primacy gives a very smooth and quiet ride but rolls a lot during fast cornering but still grips very well.
The ht sensor lingkage is the dogbone arm between the antiroll bar and sensor. Check and see if its loose in the socket . Its actually last a long time so I dont expect it to give problems. If its loose then you will have uneven front to back height.
Another things is our human senses will self adapt which means the feeling gets desensitizes after awhile so you dont get the feeling anymore unless there is a change of conditions for the better or worse. To reset go and drive a conventional car for a day or 2 ...you will get back the great feeling again that I can assure you.
Tyre pressure within 10% is acceptable. Michelin Primacy gives a very smooth and quiet ride but rolls a lot during fast cornering but still grips very well.
The ht sensor lingkage is the dogbone arm between the antiroll bar and sensor. Check and see if its loose in the socket . Its actually last a long time so I dont expect it to give problems. If its loose then you will have uneven front to back height.
Another things is our human senses will self adapt which means the feeling gets desensitizes after awhile so you dont get the feeling anymore unless there is a change of conditions for the better or worse. To reset go and drive a conventional car for a day or 2 ...you will get back the great feeling again that I can assure you.
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Hello guys,
This morning I changed the heights. The front did not move because the height is perfect. The back is about 1.5 cm higher. I checked, heights front and rear are perfect. Good news !
I took the road, it's better especially at the back. But I don't feel like I have the real comfort.
I will have to live with this "problem"... It will surely disappear as it happened
I'm currently driving more often with my father's Ford mondéo which is really stiff. It's true that despite a hard suspension, the C5 X7 is still of very high level.
This morning I changed the heights. The front did not move because the height is perfect. The back is about 1.5 cm higher. I checked, heights front and rear are perfect. Good news !
I took the road, it's better especially at the back. But I don't feel like I have the real comfort.
I will have to live with this "problem"... It will surely disappear as it happened
I'm currently driving more often with my father's Ford mondéo which is really stiff. It's true that despite a hard suspension, the C5 X7 is still of very high level.
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Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Hi, heres a tip, that worked on mine perfectly, I read somewhere that citroen use a tool to apply a slight positive pressure to the resevior to remove the excess air in the system.
Using a old brake master cylinder cover with a pipe fixed to a hole in the top then apply between 1/2 to a full stroke of a bicycle pump, ONLY ONE then carry out the bleeding sequence described earlier.
Using a old brake master cylinder cover with a pipe fixed to a hole in the top then apply between 1/2 to a full stroke of a bicycle pump, ONLY ONE then carry out the bleeding sequence described earlier.
Stu
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"Some cause happiness wherever they go, others whenever they go"Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)
Major interventions
C5 Steering rack @ 58,000 mi
4 discs & Pads @ 63,585 mi
2 (AM6) oil exchanges @ 58,876 & 72,378 mi
Re: C5 X7 Hydractive 3+ Strange Behavior
Hello Sloppysod,
Yes, I read that in the documentation but I don't think that's where my problem comes from. Nevertheless, when I will have time to make this cap, I'll drop by here to make a little message and keep you informed about your procedure.
Anyway, if I have any news, I'll drop by here.
Thanks to be here guys,
BR,
Lekto
Yes, I read that in the documentation but I don't think that's where my problem comes from. Nevertheless, when I will have time to make this cap, I'll drop by here to make a little message and keep you informed about your procedure.
Anyway, if I have any news, I'll drop by here.
Thanks to be here guys,
BR,
Lekto