e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by GiveMeABreak »

There we are then Mick - they're just re-resurrecting it to show how green they are...
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

They have, for years now, advertised the fact on the sides of their delivery lorries.
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

In a bit of a tangent from Bangers and Cash episode 1 of the new series, and Derek doing a Henry Ford "quote", I tried to find it (unsuccessfully).

I did come across this though about Henry Ford's "fuel of the future"....Ethyl Alcohol
http://www.herbmuseum.ca/content/brief-history-fuel
When Henry Ford told a New York Times reporter that ethyl alcohol was "the fuel of the future" in 1925, he expressed an opinion widely shared in the automotive industry. "The fuel of the future is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust--almost anything," he said. "There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."
Henry of course lived in a time when even his mass-production ambitions, couldn't have imagined the numbers of cars and other vehicles on the roads we have now, or indeed the feeding of those vehicles by a 90 billion barrels a day Oil Industry.
Fermentation produces ethyl and other alcohols, but the process is too costly in terms of cultivated land use and too inefficient in terms of alcohol production to feasibly supply enough fuel alcohol to power industrial society.
So where is ethyl alcohol as a fuel today :?:

"Up to 10%" in the E10 you put in your tank,

Think that one has been tried before
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Still hanging around even the old pour some oil from vegetable/animal fats/waste into the tank and burn it in a combustion engine.

Bentley are doing it would you believe it :?:
The ‘Green D+’ biofuel is made from hydrotreated waste vegetable oil (HVO), a fossil-free alternative to diesel that refines renewable and sustainable products such as waste fats, vegetables and oil. HVO is a second generation, premium biofuel. As well as reducing tailpipe emissions, it also cuts nitrous oxide by up to 30% and particulates by up to 80%. (really :?:)
and BP are Acquiring their way into the business
BP has acquired a 30% stake in the UK’s largest provider of hydrogenated vegetable oil (HVO) fuels, Green Biofuels. The two businesses will work together to help fleets across the construction, freight and marine industries to decarbonize.
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

From the Article Gibbo linked to here
NewcastleFalcon wrote:
06 Feb 2022, 12:39
Tesco are pretty active and part of a wider group of large commercial fleets committed to electrification
viewtopic.php?p=699596#p699596

Their rivals may be barking up the wrong tree. Maybe they don't realise burning natural gas in a combustion engine is a cause of carbon dioxide emissions.
Asda, Sainsbury's and Aldi have said they were trialling natural gas-powered lorries which they said would cut emissions by up to 90% compared to diesel.
I see what ASDA et al are doing now they are, using Bio Methane (in LNG form) in their trucks.
ASDA welcomes 202 biogas-fuelled trucks to its fleet

Regards Neil
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

I have to say that the innovation and change is gathering pace, and developments are happening in all areas, not just electrification.

This is an interesting little article from Air Liquide. They are partnering/contracting with ASDA in the logistics of manufacture supply and distribution of bio methane to power ASDA's building fleet of biomethane powered Tractor Units.

The green credentials of Biomethane as a fuel, which can only at best be carbon neutral, may not stand up to close scrutiny, but I have no doubt whatsoever that Air Liquide and ASDA/ etc are fully capable of creating the necessary logistics and infrastructure to make it work for them, and Volvo and other manufacturers will quite happily develop and sell the Trucks.
One of the leading retailers in the United Kingdom, ASDA, has contracted Air Liquide to install and operate six biomethane (BioNGV) distribution stations to refuel trucks on its sites. Alongside other investments to increase Air Liquide’s production and distribution capacities, this major contract marks a significant acceleration in the Group’s development of its biomethane activity in the UK.

British retail group ASDA will commission more than 300 new BioNGV (Natural Gas for Vehicles) trucks in 2021 to reduce the environmental footprint of its transport activities. To support ASDA, Air Liquide will install and operate biomethane stations on 6 of the retailer’s 15 sites. These stations will refuel both ASDA trucks and those of some partners.
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Unsurprisingly the UK Anaerobic Digestion and Bio-Resources Association reckon Biomethane has a vital role in decarbonisation. Others also agree, and ASDA and Air Liquide and Volvo are already driving around the country on it.

“There is no net zero without biogas” (EU),
“It is a win-win-win-win-win industry” (UNFCCC),
“A biogas plant is the hub in the future circular economy” (IEA).

Others no doubt disagree, following its production its mostly burned, so achieves carbon neutrality at theoretical best. It does have the ears of Governments and ticks a few boxes especially if the feedstock used is from organic waste, as opposed specific "bio-energy" fuel crops.


This is the Anaerobic Digestion and Bio-Resources Association ADBA report "Biomethane: The Pathway to 2030"
Its in the too long for anyone to read too detailed tradition. Surely a 5 minute Youtube Vid would have sufficed to get their message across :-D

For the record
https://adbioresources.org/resources/uk ... claration/

Meanwhile if you want to pioneer and do it in your backyard, you would expect our American friends to have come up with something off-grid.



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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by myglaren »

A good American advert!

(No talking)

But do they really have vegetables?
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

myglaren wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 15:24
A good American advert!

(No talking)

But do they really have vegetables?
Probably not, other than some of their politicians!
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

myglaren wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 15:24
A good American advert!

(No talking)

But do they really have vegetables?
They love their veggies, if you've ever been in one of their supermarkets you'll know the fruit and veg displays take up acres of space.
If they waste as much as our shoppers there'll be plenty for biogas.
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Huskyxantia »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 18:44
myglaren wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 15:24
A good American advert!

(No talking)

But do they really have vegetables?
They love their veggies, if you've ever been in one of their supermarkets you'll know the fruit and veg displays take up acres of space.
If they waste as much as our shoppers there'll be plenty for biogas.
Are these full acres ?
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Gibbo2286 »

Huskyxantia wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 10:03
Gibbo2286 wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 18:44
myglaren wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 15:24
A good American advert!

(No talking)

But do they really have vegetables?
They love their veggies, if you've ever been in one of their supermarkets you'll know the fruit and veg displays take up acres of space.
If they waste as much as our shoppers there'll be plenty for biogas.
Are these full acres ?
Depends on how many shops you add together. :-D
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Huskyxantia »

Gibbo2286 wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 11:15
Huskyxantia wrote:
08 Feb 2022, 10:03
Gibbo2286 wrote:
07 Feb 2022, 18:44


They love their veggies, if you've ever been in one of their supermarkets you'll know the fruit and veg displays take up acres of space.
If they waste as much as our shoppers there'll be plenty for biogas.
Are these full acres ?
Depends on how many shops you add together. :-D
The land of the free..... ? What is free nowaday lol
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by Huskyxantia »

On the fuel subject, any persons removed there e10 from there petrol yet ?
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Re: e-fuel, synthetic fuel, bio-fuel still alive?

Post by NewcastleFalcon »

Further back in the thread HVO from Waste still hanging around and not just from a few small players. BP have taken a a 30% stake in Green Biofuels, an HVO company.

viewtopic.php?p=708792#p708792

Travis Perkins are one of the organisations trialling HVO. There's a link here to a story on Fleet News if you want to find out more.

Travis Perkins expands HVO fuel trial

Regards Neil