bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 7630
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 434

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by xantia_v6 »

VINCENTFISHING wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 09:08
Good to hear that, had a trawl of the net to see if a cheap scope available, but no such thing
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Mob ... 0677.m4598

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

after my last post , i did actually check ebay and came across quite a few 'pocket' scopes and multimeters with scope facility, i recently bought a better multimeter than my old one that read hertz, wish i hadnt as i would definately have paid a bit extra for the addition of the scope, if i manage to get this car going and sell it, will buy one as a present to myself!!

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

moizeau wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 09:26
Why not do the test in reverse and fit your uncertain coils to a working car?
did think of that, but dont know anyone with a petrol picasso or even a peugeot with same engine,
but if theres anyone out there in thanet with 1.6 16v tu5jp4 who wants to help out !

wheeler
Posts: 4538
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 192

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

VINCENTFISHING wrote:
23 Nov 2020, 09:08
brother in law has a C1 , might have a look under his bonnet, you never know.
Assuming its a petrol C1 the only thing under the bonnet that would be interchangeable with your picasso is the bulbs. The C1 is just a rebadged Toyota Aygo, the engine & the electrics are all Toyota.

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

had checked that out and ruled it out, but thanks anyway
.

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

checked timing, belt good ,tension good, cams locked, dimple on ckshaft pulley at 6 o clock roughly in line with big blob of typex on block,

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

yesterday decided to start again at plugs and work back, as no one about to crank as i watched plugs for spark (coilpack out of car plug grounded to block) thought i would check by activating coils with lexia and used phone to film,
firstly i stuck tent pin up coil secondary and and propped it just off block, on actuation got spark,
tried same with old and newer plugs in, no spark,
got new random plug ive had for about 20yrs in shed and bingo spark !
went out and got 4 new plugs ,was getting dark so stuck them back in engine and screwed coilpack down with visions in my head of it starting ,, no such luck!
this morning i took plugs out set up lexia and camera
actuated and tested one coil/plug grounded at a time, all worked.....
tested again while cranking engine,,, nothing ,no spark...
so it appears when fed on test by lexia they spark
when fed via crank/ignition they dont spark

thinking now maybe put temp feed to coil from battery to bypass ignition and see if starts ?????

ALSO while taking plugs out noticed only one plug was wet others were bone dry, shone torch down plug holes and same piston was wet other 3 dry,,,,,,
noid test on injectors showed all flashing, disconnect plugs and tested them ,all flashing, tested resistance ,all injectors 11.9 ohms which i believe is correct, so 3 blocked injectors , doubtfull.
so thinking out loud ,
could something be happening thats affecting cranking coil supply and only 3 out of 4 injectors,
even if i could do temp battery supply to coils that wouldnt help me with injectors or would it ????
more questions than answers !

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

just for the hell of it ,took out injector loom and tested it for continuity and resistance,
all ok.
tested from the injection loom connector to ecu/bsm and all good,
after that thought i would recheck supply voltage at coil,

with the coil and plugs out of engine and plugged in to connector
at key pos 1, 0.1v
at pos 2 , 12.3v, after couple of seconds theres a click and voltage drops to 0.6v
on cranking 9v/4v/11v/7v fluctuating

with the coilpack disconected and testing plug
key pos 1, 0.59v
pos 2 , 1.3v aclick then drops to 0.59v
on cranking it fluctuates between 1v ish and 2v ish

while doing cranking still getting fuel into 2nd cylinder from drivers side, nothing in other 3.
after getting pulsing at noids in injectors yesterday thought i would check ign voltage at them , all 5v.
just putting all this up as it may be of some use to someone later
just because i am getting paranoid about things working but maybe not working properly bought another crank sensor(as fairly cheap at eurocarparts )
will stick that in tomorrow, if no change plan to take inlet manifold off to get at fuel rail so i can check injectors outside engine, done it with diesels before so hope fully will get them firing into clear plastic bottles and see if three are duff or just not firing .

wheeler
Posts: 4538
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 192

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

5v at the injectors?? Is that on crank too?
You should have 12v

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

wheeler wrote:
27 Nov 2020, 18:55
5v at the injectors?? Is that on crank too?
You should have 12v
no didnt crank,
will try cranking tomorrow
do i test between both terminals or 5v side and earth to block ?

admiral51
Donor 2019
Posts: 2109
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
x 211

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by admiral51 »

Okay gonna throw this in just as a side issue after re reading all the posts.
Cranking will require lots of power and you have had issues with a battery light staying on, a dead battery now replaced and not much change.
Have you checked the earth points for good contact and are the leads in good condition.
It has had a clutch replacement which reading between the lines it was done not that long before the car suddenly stopped and refused to re start.
Not an expert, just a Xantia Owner that likes to learn and ask daft questions

Colin

wheeler
Posts: 4538
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 192

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

There is no 5v side on the injectors, one side is 12v with the ignition on (some vehicles need to start cranking before the power goes to the injectors) the other pin is a switched earth from the ECU.

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Ok, so i shouldnt have had 5v, i only checked the outside 2 injectors as the inner two are a pain to disconnect, the inner two include the one that is fueling so hopefully i am going to find 12v on that and 5v on the last of the 3 that dont provide fuel , at least then i have something to work on, roll on tomorrow.

wheeler
Posts: 4538
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
x 192

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

So pin 2 is the live supply to the injectors this comes from the internal injection relay in the under bonnet fusebox out via pin 16 of the 16 way black connector. If you look at the diagram you can see that this same internal relay also powers the igniton coil out from pin 9 of the same plug. The easiest place to start would be the fusebox. The injectors harness is a small harness on its own connected to the main engine harness by a 6 way plug behind the inlet manifold, this too would be worth a look.
Attachments
Injectors.jpg

VINCENTFISHING
Posts: 51
Joined: 13 Nov 2020, 17:03
x 4

Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Thanks for that, i did disconnect the plug behind manifold today and took out injector harness to test for continuity and resistance on the shared feed and signal wires and then from plug to fuse board on live and plug to ecu on signal wires, going to recheck it all again tomorrow, now i have a bit more info