bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

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VINCENTFISHING
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

So if i have rpm on live data, which confirms crank signal, should i be looking at timing next ?

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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

New battery ordered !

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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Battery arrived, fitted, injectors all clicking when actuated(very faint, got to have very quiet conditions and good hearing!!),
managed to get into showroom mode on lexia to turn off 'economy mode'
this appears to have got rid of battery light staying on after locking car.
however having come out of lexia ,packed cables etc away, found out you cant lock car in showroom mode and display stays on, so had to put lexia back on and put car into customer mode... but learnt something !
ordered noid lights, the sort that connect to testing cables with pins attached to back probe plugs without disconnecting, thought these would be handier for testing other things ,
1st thing will test with them if suitable is backprobe the 12v supply to coilpack and back probe signal wire to see if getting signal from ecu.
if there is a signal from both signal wires(if advised not suitable will try hertz test again ) that just leaves the last return confirmation of function wire , can this be tested?? /and how ?,
have my doubts there will be any signal to coil as its a new coil and plugs in situ, but you never know.
checked live data and got 160/rpm ish, so cranksensor ok.

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VINCENTFISHING
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Just been out and connected my noid lights to 4 wire coilpack,
one probe to number 1 wire, 12v supply wire , other probe to wire 4 signal wire,
lights pulsed when cranking.
then connected wire 1 and 2,
light pulsed when cranking.
wire 3 i believe is return confirmation of firing signal to ecu, can i connect between wire1 12v live and
wire 3 and expect to see noid pulse ??
with the confirmation of signal to coil (which could still be wrong signal somehow??) I have decided to further test the coil pack as lexia actuation test shows faulty actuation.
the previous owner had fitted a new hella coilpack but maybe its duff? i still have old segam coilpack .
they both tested correctly for resistance across primary and secondary coils, but does this mean they are definately ok ??
so I am going to attempt to test old coilpack at shed in back garden
i am going to connect wire1 live feed to spare battery , connect a wire to wire 3 to flash across negative terminal,
i will have coilpack connected to plugs with the plugs resting on metal garden fork stuck in garden soil, hoping this will be adequate grounding
then flash the signal wire quickly over neg terminal,
the hope being that 2 of the spark plugs will fire, then try 2nd signal wire for other 2 plugs,
will this work ??? if so at least i can test both coilpacks and rule them out !

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Paul-R
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by Paul-R »

Are Noid Lights just for petrol fuel injectors? Or can they be used with Diesel injectors? If just petrol, direct and indirect injectors? If both fuels, will they work with the new piezoelectric injectors.

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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Paul-R wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 14:23
Are Noid Lights just for petrol fuel injectors? Or can they be used with Diesel injectors? If just petrol, direct and indirect injectors? If both fuels, will they work with the new piezoelectric injectors.
The Noid test light set has been designed to provide an easy to use universal fit Noid light kit for testing automotive 12v actuator switching circuits like petrol injectors and ignition low tension switchingBright a clear LED noid light for automotive electronic diagnostics4mm female "banana" type sockets allow the back probes to be used on any multi-meter leads equipped with 4mm male "banana" plugs.Easy fit fine back probe pins offer universal connectivityUsed to "see" the switching of low tension circuits like petrol injectors, ignition LT circuits and relay switching circuits.Do not use on high voltage diesel injectors. Only connect in parallel, connection in series will result in damage to the Noid light
this is the description fom seller,

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

Paul-R wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 14:23
Are Noid Lights just for petrol fuel injectors? Or can they be used with Diesel injectors? If just petrol, direct and indirect injectors? If both fuels, will they work with the new piezoelectric injectors.
If they are 12v injectors then yes but most common rail injectors are 80v upwards.
You can use noid lights to check most 12v things, stepper motors, solenoids, electrovalves etc.
I have a set that plugs straight into the component, i dont have the bannana lead ones.

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

What is the last 8 digits of VIN & i will look at a diagram & tell you what pins to check.
Economy mode is not a problem & is not causing the non starting issue, the car will come out of eco mode once you get it started. It’s doing what its meant to do at the moment.

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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Thanks
25999703 (last eight)

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

OK so pin 4 is the power supply from the BSM, this should have battery voltage at it when the ignition is on or when cranking, Pin 1 is the trigger for the cylinders 1 & 4 part of the coil, Pin 2 it the trigger for cylinders 2 & 3 part of the coil.
Pin 3 appears to be a feed back to the ECU to show the coil is powered up, i would say it should be a constant 12v when cranking.
Connecting the noid light between pin 4 & 1 then 4 & 2 should have a pulse on crank.
Check Each injector plug. If you are getting the pulsing at the injectors & coil i would check the timing.
I have never really found resistance checking to be a good indicator of coil condition.
VINCENTFISHING wrote:
21 Nov 2020, 13:59
i am going to connect wire1 live feed to spare battery , connect a wire to wire 3 to flash across negative terminal,
i will have coilpack connected to plugs with the plugs resting on metal garden fork stuck in garden soil, hoping this will be adequate grounding
then flash the signal wire quickly over neg terminal,
the hope being that 2 of the spark plugs will fire, then try 2nd signal wire for other 2 plugs,
will this work ??? if so at least i can test both coilpacks and rule them out !
Im not sure if this will work but I would imagine you would need to earth the plugs back to the battery?
Attachments
coil.jpg

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VINCENTFISHING
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

decided to try both coil packs (old and new) with plugs in and earthed using a threaded bar clamped to all four plugs and earthed to block(all resting on engine so i could see spark at plugs), cranked(have 12v at feed and signal pulse at primary coils)
no spark at plugs using either coilpack,
so at moment unless something peculiar is going on with supply and signal, i am going to try and find a third working coilpack cheap somewhere to rule out coilpack problem...
there is a written off xsara picasso at local breakers so might ask what they will charge for coilpack
dont believe timing would come into the equation at moment with no spark ,even with timing out spark would still be there ??

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VINCENTFISHING
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

just watched a vey good video on testing a crank no starter, the guy was using scopes but gave all alternatives and also what not to do, one of the no no's was testing coil trigger signals from ecu with noid lights, they draw too much current and can fry ecu unless ecu has inbuilt protection, hope i havnt caused damage !
going to check timing tomorrow as the other thing that should be ruled out.

wheeler
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by wheeler »

I have used noid lights regularly for over 15 years without any issues and is one of my first go to tools for this type of fault.
Yes, the best and most accurate way without a doubt to check most engine management components is using a scope, the problem is most people dont have access to a scope.

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VINCENTFISHING
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by VINCENTFISHING »

Good to hear that, had a trawl of the net to see if a cheap scope available, but no such thing , not worth the expense on a project ! Still plan to check timing today and then preferably beg , borrow a working coil just to rule my ones out of equation, brother in law has a C1 , might have a look under his bonnet, you never know.

moizeau
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Re: bought a 2008 xsara picasso 1.6vtx 16v non starter cheap

Post by moizeau »

Why not do the test in reverse and fit your uncertain coils to a working car?